Water/food system

[Tarkus the dog]

Can we get this thing turned off? It's such a waste of everyone's time and I'm not sure why did it manage to persist this long.

[Taerl]

My feed back on this is I like it. It's been dumbed down slot and I liked it the way it was honestly.

For me it's all the little things like this that just add to emersion for me. I'm sure I'm not alone on this.

Personally it will be a sad day to see it go away completely. So I'd rather see it stick around.

[Irongron]

I'm on record saying this system will not be removed.

[Sartain]

It could probably use some tweaking, I feel like food and water items provide too much satiation per item. Maybe 10% instead of 25% I don't think I've ever actually had to BUY any of these items, I find more than enough to see me through

[Nitro]

It could probably use some tweaking, I feel like food and water items provide too much satiation per item. Maybe 10% instead of 25% I don't think I've ever actually had to BUY any of these items, I find more than enough to see me through

Good god no, I don't want to stand in place for a literal RL minute spamming food or water to get the meter up.

[Jagel]

I would miss it if it went away. I still miss the 20% movement penalty in heavy armor though I completely understand why it was removed. My character just felt more like badass knight, stomping through town in heavy plates.

[Sartain]

It could probably use some tweaking, I feel like food and water items provide too much satiation per item. Maybe 10% instead of 25% I don't think I've ever actually had to BUY any of these items, I find more than enough to see me through

Good god no, I don't want to stand in place for a literal RL minute spamming food or water to get the meter up.

Fair poin though as it stands now the system is pretty useless. Pop 4 of each you took off mobs you killed, good to go. Maybe have different tiers of food/water items, so you can spend actual coin on buying the good stuff, but these also require more resources from the settlement stockpile or wherever it is food and water comes from?

[Durvayas]

I'm on record saying this system will not be removed.

The system adds nothing to immersion(if anything, it detracts from it really), its a needless gold sink that punishes lowbies (who can't make fort saves drinking form water sources). Food poisons don't work unless people under lvl 15 roll a 1. No-str characters still carry up to 10% or more of their capacity in food and water, and It only brings penalties, so on top of being pointless, its also entirely mandatory.

Collectively, I can confidently say we'd rather we see a move towards bonuses for being well fed, well rested, well watered, giving people an incentive to actually enjoy the system, than it remaining something that we wait until our meters are at zero, and then eat four rations in a row, drink four waters in a row, and then ignore the system entirely for two more hours.

It has been marginally improved in the past, with taverns being exempted, settlements able to passively increase food/thirst meters, and the removal of the once cancerous...
*eats*
*eats*
*eats*
*eats*
*Drinks*
*Drinks*
*Drinks*
*Drinks*
...emotes of the past.

But the system is still awful. Its something we collectively tolerate to play here, not anything any of us actually enjoy.

Carrot and stick, Irongron. The system is entirely stick, and has always been entirely stick. Can the server get a little bit of carrot instead? Maybe skill bonuses of some kind? Or even just a 2% speed bonus for satiety or something.

[TimeAdept]

I'm on record saying this system will not be removed.

Why?

[Astral]

I'm on record saying this system will not be removed.

Why?

Immersion.

[Berried]

As someone who loves cooking and hates eating irl, I have to admit I'm massively prejudiced in favor of games that have a robust recipe system. It's all the wholesome fun of meal prep without that part where you have to put it in your mouth and swallow it like some kind of degenerate.

Maybe skill bonuses of some kind? Or even just a 2% speed bonus for satiety or something.

^ I don't know enough to say that this wouldn't imbalance the server, but it would be cool. Even cooler would be if food itself provided a variety of tiny but appreciable status effects. Could also open up a few avenues of rp and mercantile for lowbies who don't have the means to craft the more resource-intensive items? I guess?

[Nitro]

I'm on record saying this system will not be removed.

Why?

Immersion.

Carrying 100 bottles of water in your backpack and chugging 6 in a row every 2 days is about as immersive as pink and black untextured boxes.

[Durvayas]

Why?

Immersion.

Carrying 100 bottles of water in your backpack and chugging 6 in a row every 2 days is about as immersive as pink and black untextured boxes.

As is sleeping three times in a row because your PC is exausted, or sleeping in the middle of an important meeting or lecture, or having to eat three meals while having a meeting or event, or really anything that lasts 1-2 RL hours but a full day in game. Nobody finds the system immersive. Most people, like me, are taken out of the scene and reminded that its a video game because I'll be in the middle of things and 'Oh look, two hours have passed. Gotta top off those meters before my PC starts dying.' *proceeds to stuff four sandwiches into my PC's hungry maw, and drink four litres of water, before going back to what they were doing*

I get why the system is here. For immersion, but the food and water meters drop too fast.
And why? Because nobody is going to take the time to emote preparing and eating a meal every 30 minutes. Sometimes we emote about having a snack, if its situationally appropriate, but we'd probably do so anyway if the system wasn't there. If everyone stopped everything and emoted a meal every single time their PC needed to eat, thats all anyone would ever be able to RP about.

So by nescessity, the system is ignored much of the time, and only attended to when it has to be. Its not immersive, its a chore by definition. One many of us would rather be opt-in than mandatory.

[Irongron]

Honestly, it's because for good or ill the water system is very much part of the Arelith experience.

If I was making a system from scratch I might go a different route, but the water/food is more deeply woven into Arelith than one might think.

The work in fully stripping/reworking it would be huge task (removing all of that food from drops, rethinking recipes and resource distribution in hundreds of areas, the settlement resource system)

Absolutely not. There is literally no way I'm going to do all of that work to remove something that at very worse is a mild irritation. There is so much more to do for Arelith in so many places.

Also food/rest, some people love it, some people really don't. I can totally empathize with both but do not, even remotely, feel there can be any compromise there; this one really is subjective.

I don't think I'll follow this thread further, as this is not a topic I find remotely interesting. Really is one of the most banal features of the game to consider.

[TimeAdept]

Then just make it so food and water give 100% and save us all the time. That's just changing 2 numbers.

The definition of banal: so lacking in originality as to be obvious and boring.

this seems worth getting rid of, by the definition of your own words.

It's a giant waste of everyone's time, does not add to immersion, and makes the biggest factor in any meeting the amount of coffee you can drag in, courtesy of the local packmule.

[Subutai]

How about just some more options for food to buy from merchants? Right now, unless you have the crafting points invested or find someone who does, your food options are "Food" and "Travel provisions". I'd absolutely love it if my character could head to the Nomad or the Clover and order up some kinds of different foods, or go out on a nice picnic and have a decent spread of food without having to make some gigantic effort to find a custom chef to make a ham sandwich.

Also, it seems like it would make sense just from a world perspective. Places like the Nomad would be very likely to serve at least some kind of food, and it seems likely there'd also be at least one nice little restaurant that wasn't an inn/tavern.

[The Rambling Midget]

this seems worth getting rid of, by the definition of your own words.

I agree and I hate the system, because it adds absolutely nothing to atmosphere or immersion, but I've never pushed very hard to get rid of it, because of this:

There is literally no way I'm going to do all of that work to remove something that at very worse is a mild irritation. There is so much more to do for Arelith in so many places.

I'd rather just deal with it and have Dev time spent on adding cool stuff.

[Bibliophile]

Please don't make 'being full' give some form of bonus. I don't know about you but if I tried to go for a run immediately after eating a meal I would vomit.

[Subutai]

Please don't make 'being full' give some form of bonus. I don't know about you but if I tried to go for a run immediately after eating a meal I would vomit.

What if there was a range, and it went over 100%? Start adding negatives a little bit higher up, so hungry players get minor skill penalties to start, but then also add going over 100%, which would give penalties for being overly full. 100% would then be more like, "Perfectly satiated", rather than "Stuffed".

[TimeAdept]

We need literally the exact opposite of more useless meter management, thanks.

[MissEvelyn]

Water wells could use a bit of tweaking. It doesn't make sense to get sick the moment the water is in your body. It would be much more immersive, if you will, if the disease came a tick or two later. It should come with a message saying something like 'You recently drank from a contaminated water source and have fallen ill', if the fortitude save fails.

But the system as a whole? I love it. I love that it inspires and provides the opportunity for people bringing homemade food and drinks to events that last longer than a few IG hours.

[MissEvelyn]

How about just some more options for food to buy from merchants?

I feel that this would just discourage player character cooks who already spend a lot of time preparing and cooking and then rewriting titles and descriptions on their baked/cooked goods.

One thing I'll add is that we need an easier way to retain descriptions after splitting stacks. It's so frustrating as a crafter of any bulk items with custom descriptions, now that EE sadly ruined bulk descriptions.

[Subutai]

I'd really like to see some additional status messages, too. "Subutai uses Item Special Power" is a bit dull and pointless. There's always RPing it, which I really wish people would do more of, but for those who aren't interested in RPing their character eating (most players, most of the time, it seems like. And I know I could do better at always RPing it, for sure), it would be nice for the rest of us to get some indication of what's going on. Is their character eating? Opening a bag? About to murder everyone with a powerful rod?

I feel that this would just discourage player character cooks who already spend a lot of time preparing and cooking and then rewriting titles and descriptions on their baked/cooked goods.

One thing I'll add is that we need an easier way to retain descriptions after splitting stacks. It's so frustrating as a crafter of any bulk items with custom descriptions, now that EE sadly ruined bulk descriptions.

I don't think it necessarily would. The great thing about crafting food is that it can be literally anything. It could be a ration, it could be lobster bisque, it could be whatever you can possibly dream up.

I think there's a nice middle ground to be found. Something between just "Food" and an endless selection. Just a few different, relatively general things. "Cooked fish", "Bread", "An entire tomato just by itself". Enough that it gives players a few options without having to find a crafter, but still gives crafters room to make a lot of really interesting foods.

As it stands "Food" is so generic that it feels immersion breaking, to me. Like I'm playing some FPS where I just pick up "Food" to heal, and don't care about what that food is.

[Ozzy.nl]

I agree full time with Jagel here.
And definitely about the armor movements penelty I wish we got that one back.
Never understood why it was remove in the first place.

I would miss it if it went away. I still miss the 20% movement penalty in heavy armor though I completely understand why it was removed. My character just felt more like badass knight, stomping through town in heavy plates.

[Subutai]

I agree full time with Jagel here.
And definitely about the armor movements penelty I wish we got that one back.
Never understood why it was remove in the first place.

Heavy armor movement penalties don't really make all that much sense, tbh. Armor isn't all that heavy. If there was endurance, and you lost endurance more quickly when running in plate, sure, but wearing plate armor isn't really going to slow you down that much, particularly if you've been training in it.

Now carrying a 45lb tower shield strapped to one arm definitely would, but NWN doesn't really treat tower shields like normal DnD does anyway.