Ranger Feat Feedback

[Drowboy]

Testing on the PGCC, problemo 1:

Blood Lust does this when you try to take it

And kicks you back to 14.

Problemo 2: Since I had the char at 14, I figured they needed a rebuild.
Attempting to rebuild locks you at 5, and the game says you have too many feats.

Aaand that's where I stopped being able to test. You can't level rangers past 5 on the PGCC fresh, either.

[Drowboy]

Looks like they're takeable/Makeable, thanks Spyre!

However: dual wield mastery doesn't appear to work. 26 ab with one mdam weapon at 18, 24 with two, no other equipment.

[Flower Power]

However: dual wield mastery doesn't appear to work. 26 ab with one mdam weapon at 18, 24 with two, no other equipment.

Which is a shame. As a regular player of STR rangers, it's the only one of the three I'd ever consider taking.

Call of the Wild looks really nice, but the CON tax is too high for a class whose primary AB/DMG source is going hard into STR - and blood lust? An extra +3-4 vamp regen (which is realistically all it'd give you) is not worth a feat.

The passives - Nature Sense and the +3 CL vs. Dispels? Those are great and will assist undertuned STR rangers and recently nerfed DEX rangers immeasurably. Poison Use is nothing but a fishing trip, but it's a nice cookie regardless.

[Drowboy]

So, the buffs appear to work for the pet, but the bloodlust regen doesn't work either.

[Flower Power]

If it's actual vamp regen (not the special stuff Arelith has cooked up for its version of Bladethirst), it doesn't apply on every strike but instead on 50% of attacks.

[Drowboy]

I only ever got 5, which I'm relatively certain is just the baseline high level blade thirst. I ginsu'd a lot of dudes.

Like, gut check: once dual wield boost is working, you'll be able to get pretty decent dual wield numbers on a strength ranger, even if you neglect your strength a bit, opening up the opportunity to take EDR3. High hp pool, high damage, regen on hit, and a pet that's sturdier than normal to take some of the hits for you.

In theory I could see this working but in practice I feel like the low AC of a light-armor-and-no-shield strength ranger is still going to really hurt.

What I'd maybe like to see is the dual wield boost giving you TWF and Ambi (bear with me) so you can use medium and maybe make up some of the AC there with some of the nicer armors.

[Baron Saturday]

I only ever got 5, which I'm relatively certain is just the baseline high level blade thirst. I ginsu'd a lot of dudes.

Like, gut check: once dual wield boost is working, you'll be able to get pretty decent dual wield numbers on a strength ranger, even if you neglect your strength a bit, opening up the opportunity to take EDR3. High hp pool, high damage, regen on hit, and a pet that's sturdier than normal to take some of the hits for you.

In theory I could see this working but in practice I feel like the low AC of a light-armor-and-no-shield strength ranger is still going to really hurt.

What I'd maybe like to see is the dual wield boost giving you TWF and Ambi (bear with me) so you can use medium and maybe make up some of the AC there with some of the nicer armors.

Isn't accursed chain the only medium armor better than ranger studded leather? Even the "lesser" version gives 12 AC. Getting medium armor doesn't really seem like an upgrade.

[Mattamue]

Blood thirst testing, doesn't look like it's working for me either, confirmed above report.

The dual wield AB is working for me.

Tested just now on PGCC.

[METHOD]

Here's my two cents as a melee-preference player who has a STR Ranger 27 (and also a DEX Archer 27).

As noted, the general Ranger passive bonuses are the real boon here. At first glance, it's not obvious to me that I would prefer any of the test feats over replacement.

In my experience, I've found shield use is effectively mandatory in epic PvE, so the dual wield boons are effectively moot.

I like the notion of the melee Ranger emphasizing dual wielding, to the extent that their dual wield performance should match if not outstrip shield performance.

Some ideas:
- Increase Defensive Dual Wielding (DDW) scale from +4 to +6.
- Add +2 AC to Dual Wield Mastery (DWM) test feat.
- Incorporate some Leadership-type henchmen boons to Animal Empathy for companion and animal henchmen.

If Ranger 20 (or for new scaling, say 23) had DDW+4 and then the Ranger took DWM as above, their dual wield AC would be the same as if they used an Enchanted Shield, and a dual wielding pure Ranger would have +2AC compared to Enchanted Shield use.

While this does not directly address the (relatively) low AC for STR Rangers, it makes dual wield use viable (and also RP flavorful given a dual wield master might otherwise resort to shield use some if not most of the time).

Again, just my two cents for your consideration.

I've told folks that I like my STR Ranger as-is. That doesn't mean STR Rangers don't need some love. But it does mean that, based on my experience, I likely wouldn't relevel my STR Ranger to pickup any of these test feats as currently designed.

[I can see building more of a CON Ranger tank and then picking up EDR3 and Blood Lust and Call Of The Wild, but that would be an entirely different build and more importantly an entirely different mindset/character/RP.]

All that said, forever thanks to all the Devs and DMs for all the hard work the put in!

[Beard Master Flex]

The new feats are pretty good and fit nicely into a build since you can claim them with ranger bonus feats/favored enemy feats.

Pretty easy to hit 50AB and still have 20 HARD con. Deep ranger gets lots of feats so I think it works pretty well!

Bloodlust is not working for me though as others have commented. I tried it with a +6CON ranger and only ever saw the normal +5 from Bladethirst.

[Waldo52]

So there are some new ranger feats in the works? Where do I find the info on this stuff?

[Skibbles]

So there are some new ranger feats in the works? Where do I find the info on this stuff?

The updates thread in Announcements almost always has the latest news about what's coming up, or what's just been released.

Edit to add: Looks like you might be new, so welcome! Mentioned below is from the Update Thread, and at the very top is mentioned PGCC ONLY. The PGCC is a completely separate 'experimental' server where you can freely build and craft whatever you want to explore and test game mechanics, and it's where a lot of features are first deployed to try and work out bugs or exploits before they go live.

You can find the PGCC server in the Server list just like any other server, but if you sort by name it should come up alongside all the other Arelith servers.

Note: The feats are going to PGCC ONLY for testing. Another announcement will be made when they are live.
============
Class Changes:

FIGHTER

Second Wind (Granted at level 2)
- Standard action - 10 minute cooldown - self only
- Grants fighter level * con mod hp.

New Feat Options:

Epic Second Wind (Fighter 21, Str 21)
-Second wind also grants +2 ab and +2 damage for 1 turn and clears debuffs.

===============================

RANGER

Gains +3 Caster Level vs dispels at level 21. (Subject to change)

Gains 1/2 Ranger level to climb checks in natural areas.

Use Poison added at level 3.

Nature Sense added at level 16.

New Feat Options:

Dual wield mastery (Ranger 15, Str 17)
-A ranger with this feat gains +2 ab while dual wielding.

Blood Lust (Ranger 15, Str 15, Con 15)
-Blade thirst grants additional vampiric regeneration equal to a ranger's HARD constitution modifier.
-Awaken grants their animal companion regeneration equal to a ranger's HARD constitution modifier.

Call of the Wild (Ranger 23, Str 17, Con 17)
- Awaken grants a ranger's animal companion bonus AC equal to the ranger's constitution modifier. It also grants the animal companion spell resistance equal to 15 + (ranger level / 2).

[METHOD]

I grabbed some actual numbers to see if my anecdotal evidence for shield use held up. In the one scenario that I number crunched, dual wield out performed shield use (something like 20% more HP loss when using shield).

I might look at more scenarios just for my own amusement, but this changed my mind on Dual Wield Mastery. If it goes live I will cough up a Favored Enemy for it. And of course the non-feat boons will be greatly appreciated.

I still think giving STR Rangers just a bit more AC would be neat, perhaps with a modest DDW increase.

[Ork]

One of the big issues in PGCC is that the +2 for double large weapons hasn't been removed. I'd be concerned that the ranger feat working is a false positive.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

I only ever got 5, which I'm relatively certain is just the baseline high level blade thirst. I ginsu'd a lot of dudes.

Like, gut check: once dual wield boost is working, you'll be able to get pretty decent dual wield numbers on a strength ranger, even if you neglect your strength a bit, opening up the opportunity to take EDR3. High hp pool, high damage, regen on hit, and a pet that's sturdier than normal to take some of the hits for you.

In theory I could see this working but in practice I feel like the low AC of a light-armor-and-no-shield strength ranger is still going to really hurt.

What I'd maybe like to see is the dual wield boost giving you TWF and Ambi (bear with me) so you can use medium and maybe make up some of the AC there with some of the nicer armors.

Isn't accursed chain the only medium armor better than ranger studded leather? Even the "lesser" version gives 12 AC. Getting medium armor doesn't really seem like an upgrade.

Elven chain shirt gives 12 and qaulity DI properties.

[Baron Saturday]

Isn't accursed chain the only medium armor better than ranger studded leather? Even the "lesser" version gives 12 AC. Getting medium armor doesn't really seem like an upgrade.

Elven chain shirt gives 12 and qaulity DI properties.

Which seems like a side-grade, to me. You lose 1 AC compared to ranger studded, gain 5% bludg & piercing, and you have to invest more heavily in dex to max out the AC. It's not a BAD option, it just doesn't really

... make up some of the AC there with some of the nicer armors.

Not a hill I'm gonna die on, just doesn't seem like giving Str rangers free dual-wield in medium armor is going to improve their defense situation noticably.

[Rico_scorpion]

One of the big issues in PGCC is that the +2 for double large weapons hasn't been removed. I'd be concerned that the ranger feat working is a false positive.

Spot on. It is a false positive.

One second ago:

42 AB with one kama
40 AB with two kamas.... but maybe it just doesn't show up on character sheet?

Combat log: 40 Ab on first attack.

=> Feat doesn't work (yet).

[garrbear758]

Sorry for all the bugs yall! I was out of town over the weekend but I am actively working on this (and the relevel issues) now. I should hopefully have something out by the end of the day.

[Waldo52]

Isn't accursed chain the only medium armor better than ranger studded leather? Even the "lesser" version gives 12 AC. Getting medium armor doesn't really seem like an upgrade.

Elven chain shirt gives 12 and qaulity DI properties.

Which seems like a side-grade, to me. You lose 1 AC compared to ranger studded, gain 5% bludg & piercing, and you have to invest more heavily in dex to max out the AC. It's not a BAD option, it just doesn't really

... make up some of the AC there with some of the nicer armors.

Not a hill I'm gonna die on, just doesn't seem like giving Str rangers free dual-wield in medium armor is going to improve their defense situation noticably.

Now that you mention the medium armor thing I think it would be cool to see armored rangers get some love.

I've always speculated that a medium armor or even full plate ranger would make for a pretty playable build but it's odd that a class with medium armor proficiency loses so much for wearing anything heavier than light.

[Baseili]

The ranger armour is simply too good, even my non-dual wielding strength ranger uses it. Only a set of scale/breastplate armour on par with the accursed chains would tempt me and the sheer cost would no doubt send me right back to the studded leather.

As for feats Call of the Wild is a decent, with buffs applied a level 24 bear has better AC than my character. The only issue I can raise is that an epic feat to buff the companions armour/spell resist is a steep price, especially since it does nothing for the actual character. A small boon to the character would really help in that regard.

Blood lust obviously I can't give feedback since its not functional presently, however the potential +4 regen per hit isnt so great for a single weapon wielder since you are either taking longer to kill something (1h + shield) or being hit more often (2h). Maybe allowing the blood lust/thirst regen to stack an overheal?

[Scraps]

Generally I like these feats!


Dual wield mastery (Ranger 15, Str 17)
-A ranger with this feat gains +2 ab while dual wielding.

I don't think anyone would turn their nose up at +2 AB. The fact that it's dual-wielding only is great too. We've already got an insane number of strength builds that slap on a tower shield, I think there's plenty of design space for Str Ranger to lean into Dual-Wielding. The Double-Weapon nerf and HIPS nerf (Not saying the HIPS nerf was unwarranted, it certainly was.) was a blow to Strength Ranger especially. The prerequisites for this are also perfect for keeping it out of the hands of Dex Rangers who do not need it.

Blood Lust (Ranger 15, Str 15, Con 15)
-Blade thirst grants additional vampiric regeneration equal to a ranger's HARD constitution modifier.
-Awaken grants their animal companion regeneration equal to a ranger's HARD constitution modifier.

16 hard con isn't a super high price, though reaching that will cut into your strength allowance (Because Rangers will also be hitting 14 Wisdom and 14 Int). It's not crippling here, but I'll come back to this point below for Call of the Wild, because I think its far more relevant there. Just pointing out that the nature of the Vampiric Regen is somewhat counter-synergistic with eating an AB malus. (You need to hit to regen, reducing your chance to hit means less regen.) Still, this is a significant buff to the amount of sustain. Once its working on the PGCC I look forward to testing its relevance in PvE content. I think it would be fun to 'walk the knifes edge' balancing offensive recovery on an otherwise somewhat squishy character. PvP is bursty enough and AC is high enough that I don't know if this will be super relevant, but StrRangers will be hitting some spicy AB levels now, so perhaps against other low AC builds they'll get an advantage? Unsure.

The regen for the companion is more or less pointless. I think it'd need to be at least 2xHARD con to be relevant. AComps are no elementals or demon summons. They aren't running around with a plethora of physical/elemental immunities, crit immunities, or 15-20x3 crit mods. They bring to the table really high AB for a summon (Or middling AB but scary Sneak Attacks in the case of the panther) but pay for it by being made of something close to tissue paper. Even with AC and DR bonus from Greater Magic Fang (9/+9 and 9 AC at Ranger 27) They fall apart when looked at by basically anything. 3-4 Regeneration does almost nothing for them.

Call of the Wild (Ranger 23, Str 17, Con 17)
- Awaken grants a ranger's animal companion bonus AC equal to the ranger's constitution modifier. It also grants the animal companion spell resistance equal to 15 + (ranger level / 2).

17 Con is a heavy heavy heavy cost for a build that's already investing 14 into two separate stats. You could do something like [fimg=]https://gyazo.com/93001ebba77ba6cea4f7156d396f3b3d[/fimg] and still hit that on a human. But that means you're now reducing your AB AND using an epic feat to put your Animal Companion to Strength Ranger levels of AC (while not in expertise), which is still insanely squishy and basically crit bait. The spell resistance is nice as you don't have access to an easy source of SR like a druid would for your Animal Companion, and like a Druid SR it'll require a Mord AoE or targeted breach before your AComp gets poofed by a WoF scroll.

Still its a hefty cost for a slightly tankier AComp. (I know that +10 AC sounds crazy as only being 'slightly' tankier, but that's just how squishy AComps start off as. For reference this is a level 27 Rangers AComp's AC with Greater Magic Fang/Barkskin/and a maxed +5 Dex buff. All reasonable buffs you would have access to on hand. Yes I know most Elementals also have low AC, but they have far higher DR, HP, Damage Immunity, and crit immunity)
[fimg=]https://gyazo.com/569548af9b8faab226deb3addcd33701[/fimg]

[Curve]

Your ranger stats don’t include gifts. That makes things much easier to obtain.

[Scraps]

Your ranger stats don’t include gifts. That makes things much easier to obtain.

It does, that's why it's 15 Strength 16 Con. That will put you at 17 Strength 18 Con after gifts.

[Curve]

I see where you are coming from. And I don't want to derail too much, but I think if you make the stats 18/8/17/14/14/8 (after STR/CON gifts), put all your level up stats into STR and take one Great STR then you end with 26 STR. I suppose you could shoot for 18 CON and end with 24 STR, but its debatable at best. Now, if you were not shooting for this feat and started with higher base STR the best you could hope for is 28 STR and that is making health/fort sacrifices that are, again, at best debatable.

I would have to test the companion a lot to say if it changes the feel of PvE or PvP enough to warrent the feat, but I do think it's a neat option like the Blade Thirst feat. Neither are as good as the raw AB feat, but that is a high benchmark.

I am all for neat options that players can build into for different styles of characters, different styles of builds. It helps draw some away from cookie-cutter, everyone rotates through the same twelve builds style, and is fun.

[Waldo52]

I'd like to point out that I like all three things I'm seeing: Making strength rangers better, adding feats to boost animal companions (that should've been in the default game, seriously) and the addition of constitution gated feats which will result in a generation of interesting high CON rangers.

That said, I'm not so sure that only a ranger with arbitrarily high strength and constitution should be able to have an improved animal. I think that animal companions are an integral part of the class' flavor and that any ranger should be able to choose between feats that make him better or feats that make his animal better.

Please do improve strength rangers. Please usher in a new age of constitution heavy rangers. But for flavor's sake, please consider letting anyone getting a better pet.