Arelith Deities and their Banned Domains

[Kenji]

Here is a list of Deities and their banned domains (should be no more than 3)
Arelith Deity Banned Domains

Link to new domains for reference.

Since there are 180+ deities, we cordially invite everyone to chip in on what domains certain deities would not associate themselves with.

Criteria to keep in mind:

• Good and Evil domains are automatically determined by whether the deity allows Good or Evil divine followers (such as cleric, paladin, blackguard, etc)
  ex. Ilmater bans Evil domain because there are no Evil followers allowed, Kossuth bans neither Good nor Evil domain because both alignment followers are allowed.
• All Good-aligned deities with Nature aspect will have Undeath banned
• Plant and Animal domains will not be limited to nature deities only
• No more than 3 domains should be banned, including good/evil alignment

Things and opinions I'm interested in:

1. Should most, if not all except Osiris, good-aligned deities have Undeath banned unless the lore specify sanctioned use of undead?
2. Would neutral nature/druidic deities ban Undeath domain, as well?

Be respectful if you disagree with other people's opinions. Make your case on why a deity should or should not ban a domain and move on, do not drag the arguments on for more than 2 posts. Edit your posts if needed.

[Svrtr]

Seeing as deep duerra scorns arcane magic in favor of psionics, magic should be a domain banned for deep duerra.

For Haela, seeing as she is a goddess who embraces the idea of facing the challenges gets of life head on and laughing the whole way through throwing caution to the wind and reveling in those challenges, trickery would seem an apt domain to ban

[Drogo Gyslain]

Talona, Goddess of Poisons Diseases pestililence and death should have the Healing Domain Banned. She is still a nature deity but her entire dogma goes against healing and recouperation.

[Skane]

Seeing as deep duerra scorns arcane magic in favor of psionics, magic should be a domain banned for deep duerra.

For Haela, seeing as she is a goddess who embraces the idea of facing the challenges gets of life head on and laughing the whole way through throwing caution to the wind and reveling in those challenges, trickery would seem an apt domain to ban

In lieu of actual psionics magic is the best we got tbf

[LovelyLightningWitch]

All seldarine deities should have Undeath banned. Although Sehanine permits baelnorns, such entities are beyond the scope of her clerics and reanimation is banned as a consequence. Basically, the only person allowed to reanimate the dead for all of elves and the Seldarine is Sehanine herself, her clerics are not extended this right.

For non-Seldarine deities, I wouldn't say Good should inherently ban undead (halfling pantheon for instance specifically permits reanimation in defence of the village).



Silvanus should have Forge banned, as he forbids his druids from wearing metal. (may be extended to all druid deities except for Mielliki. Maybe dwarven gods are an exception too, but I only really know of faerunian, draconic and elven pantheons so won't comment!)

[Nitro]

Talona, Goddess of Poisons Diseases pestililence and death should have the Healing Domain Banned. She is still a nature deity but her entire dogma goes against healing and recouperation.

Talona's priests also treat those afflicted by disease. She is not just the goddess of plagues, poisons and disease, but also those afflicted by them, and as long as you pay homage to her you may see your life spared from what ails you.

From faiths and pantheons:

[Drogo Gyslain]

Talona, Goddess of Poisons Diseases pestililence and death should have the Healing Domain Banned. She is still a nature deity but her entire dogma goes against healing and recouperation.

Talona's priests also treat those afflicted by disease. She is not just the goddess of plagues, poisons and disease, but also those afflicted by them, and as long as you pay homage to her you may see your life spared from what ails you.

From faiths and pantheons:

From the text, it specifically says they treat the diseased, not heal and cure them. Akin to Nergal from 40K, Talona's clerics don't actually remove the cause, just treat the symptoms to further allow the progression of the diseases they spread.

They don't heal the lame or cure the sick. Thus, they are not healers. Doctors and Alchemists maybe, but not healers.

[Spriggan Bride]

Seeing as deep duerra scorns arcane magic in favor of psionics, magic should be a domain banned for deep duerra.

For Haela, seeing as she is a goddess who embraces the idea of facing the challenges gets of life head on and laughing the whole way through throwing caution to the wind and reveling in those challenges, trickery would seem an apt domain to ban

In lieu of actual psionics magic is the best we got tbf

Duerra clerics would have to use spells to emulate psionics true, but if we’re taking the attitude that these domains mean something for character’s RP then I think it’s a fair gesture to block them from magic.

I do think a “mind” or “psionic” domain could be a nice addition though with dominate person and a few mind spells (defense & offense)

[MissEvelyn]

Auril would most certainly have the Fire domain banned.

Tyr would have Trickery banned. Perhaps even also Helm.

Shar would have the Sun domain banned.


We could be more rigid than that, but those are the only strict examples that come to mind, besides the obvious good/evil ones.

[Kenji]

Keep it coming and the team will go over these. Again, it'll be very helpful if the names of deities are listed out rather than the category they belong to. Be specific on which deities and which domains are counter to each other.

Remember to check the spreadsheet to see if what you suggested is already done:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Current planned ban list:

• Silvanus bans Forge and Undeath
• Garagos bans Trickery
• Torm and Tyr ban Trickery and Undeath

Talona, Goddess of Poisons Diseases pestililence and death should have the Healing Domain Banned. She is still a nature deity but her entire dogma goes against healing and recouperation.

Talona's priests also treat those afflicted by disease. She is not just the goddess of plagues, poisons and disease, but also those afflicted by them, and as long as you pay homage to her you may see your life spared from what ails you.

From faiths and pantheons:

From the text, it specifically says they treat the diseased, not heal and cure them. Akin to Nergal from 40K, Talona's clerics don't actually remove the cause, just treat the symptoms to further allow the progression of the diseases they spread.

They don't heal the lame or cure the sick. Thus, they are not healers. Doctors and Alchemists maybe, but not healers.

Thank you for making your cases, the team will discuss over these.

Seeing as deep duerra scorns arcane magic in favor of psionics, magic should be a domain banned for deep duerra.

For Haela, seeing as she is a goddess who embraces the idea of facing the challenges gets of life head on and laughing the whole way through throwing caution to the wind and reveling in those challenges, trickery would seem an apt domain to ban

In lieu of actual psionics magic is the best we got tbf

Duerra clerics would have to use spells to emulate psionics true, but if we’re taking the attitude that these domains mean something for character’s RP then I think it’s a fair gesture to block them from magic.

I do think a “mind” or “psionic” domain could be a nice addition though with dominate person and a few mind spells (defense & offense)

For now Deep Duerra will not ban magic. Though we'll keep this in mind (no pun intended) should future new domains include Mind or Psionics.

All seldarine deities should have Undeath banned. Although Sehanine permits baelnorns, such entities are beyond the scope of her clerics and reanimation is banned as a consequence. Basically, the only person allowed to reanimate the dead for all of elves and the Seldarine is Sehanine herself, her clerics are not extended this right.

For non-Seldarine deities, I wouldn't say Good should inherently ban undead (halfling pantheon for instance specifically permits reanimation in defence of the village).

Silvanus should have Forge banned, as he forbids his druids from wearing metal. (may be extended to all druid deities except for Mielliki. Maybe dwarven gods are an exception too, but I only really know of faerunian, draconic and elven pantheons so won't comment!)

Interesting tid-bits, could you make a list of Seldarine deities that are also available on Arelith you can think of that will ban Undeath domains?

[CNS]

Kelemvor should be an obvious ban of undeath given his hatred of them and how it's the 1st or 2nd most sacred duty of his clerics to destroy them (it being a matter of debate if it's more important to help those close to the dead person or to smash up the corpse when it turns into a zombie)

[Deryliss]

Ooh, deities, my favorite topic

A few immediate thoughts:

Chauntea could ban Fire domain.
Reasoning: Chauntean dogma urges faithful to eschew the use of fire, and while there's references to chauntean clerics overseeing 'burns' of natural areas to allow for replanting and regrowing, its unlikely chauntea would provide them with that destructive force herself given her aversion to the uncontrollable rage of fire.

Istishia must ban Fire domain, and you can probably throw in Forge domain as well.
Reasoning: Istishia's whole schtick is the quenching or taming of fire. His priests can only achieve their fanciest titles by killing or suppressing the agents of Kossuth and killing fire elementals.

Grumbar must ban Air domain.
Reasoning: Completing the 'cross' of elemental hatred, Grumbar and Akadi are eternal enemies, just like Istishia and Kossuth.

Yurturus and Talona should probably ban Healing domain.
Reasoning: This one's gonna be controversial, but to add to what was said earlier, I think the best way to represent these deities' cruel intent for the mortals of the Prime is to block the Healing domain. Remember they can still use Healing spells (the regular ones).

Deneir could ban Destruction domain.
Reasoning: Deneir's dogma specifically urges the recording and preservation of information. This could be generalized to a propensity not to destroy things that could or should be studied before they can be transcribed to the Metatext.
(Honestly the same reasoning could apply to a number of Knowledge deities, like Milil.)

Eldath should ban War domain
Reasoning: Eldath's dogma is 100% conflict mediation, peace within and without, and only taking up any form of violence in self defense and as an utter last resort.

Garagos should ban Trickery domain.
Reasoning: Garagos' dogma specifically warns against use of trickery and deception in battle. This has implications in Arelith since Imp Invis is such a key part of combat preparation, but it would be very fitting with Garagos to prevent use of such petty tricks in favor of brutal head to head combat.

Ubtao could ban Darkness domain.
Reasoning: Other than being literally the coolest god by bringing in Dinosaurs, Ubtao's main angle is to keep watch over the Peaks of Flame, from which Dendar the Night Serpent will slither forth to usher eternal doom. Similarly, Ubtao's current primary antagonist is Eshowdow, a shadow entity borne out of his own spirit that was later absorbed/co-opted by Shar.

Ulitiu could ban Magic domain.
Reasoning: This is a somewhat weak one, but Ulutiu's worshippers and clerics believe all magic is blasphemous if it comes from any source other than Ulutiu. Since the Magic domain in Arelith is all about 'pure' expressions of magic (mage armor, spell breach, ilms, spell mantle) I could see reason to ban the Magic domain here.

Ghaunandaur should ban either Healing or Protection domain, maybe even both.
Reasoning: Everyone's favorite slime patron has little love for mortals, and delights immensely in watching them melt in acid. His own dogma calls for all (followers or not) to give themselves to him in "willing sacrifice", which often includes mind controlling living things (slaves, less-zealous worshippers, random passersby) into jumping into pools of caustic slime or feeding themselves to oozes or the like while singing Ghaunandaur's praises.
(PS: Maybe the Acid domain could be renamed to Slime domain?)

Selvetarm should ban Healing domain.
Reasoning: His entire dogma revolves around brutal, constant combat, and finishes with 'never give or receive quarter, and hope to die amidst the bloodlust of battle, against overwhelming odds'.


I think that covers all my thoughts for the 'main' deities. I could go on with the racial specific deities but those tend to have aspects that are very 'broad strokes' across the whole pantheon, so it might result in banning domains across most of the contained deities.

Hope this helps!

[LovelyLightningWitch]

All seldarine deities should have Undeath banned. Although Sehanine permits baelnorns, such entities are beyond the scope of her clerics and reanimation is banned as a consequence. Basically, the only person allowed to reanimate the dead for all of elves and the Seldarine is Sehanine herself, her clerics are not extended this right.

For non-Seldarine deities, I wouldn't say Good should inherently ban undead (halfling pantheon for instance specifically permits reanimation in defence of the village).

Silvanus should have Forge banned, as he forbids his druids from wearing metal. (may be extended to all druid deities except for Mielliki. Maybe dwarven gods are an exception too, but I only really know of faerunian, draconic and elven pantheons so won't comment!)

Interesting tid-bits, could you make a list of Seldarine deities that are also available on Arelith you can think of that will ban Undeath domains?

I will answer by listing a definitie ban(s) where there is no doubt, followed by a proposal for a second banned domain if such is a matter of interest. This secondary proposal will be uncertain, as Arelith Domains do not cover all possible cases so I will be proposing the closest I can find.

Third banned domain for all of them should of course be evil, as they're all Good aligned bar Shevarash

Corellon Larethian - Elven god of war, art, magic and the elven race as whole.
Banned Domain 1 should be Undeath. Reanimating the dead is an easy way for an elf to lose Corellon's favour.

If we're looking for a second banned domain beyond "Evil", I feel - considering thematics of elves/Seldarine as Creators (and the reason for why they're at eternal war with the Furies, especially Talos), Banned Domain 2 could be Destruction. While Corellon's aspect IS war and destruction, there's a difference between a just/defensive/liberation war and a blind ravaging raid.

Sehanine Moonbow - Elven goddess of death, dreams, journeys and illusion/divination magic.
Banned Domain 1 should be Undeath. Sehanine's servants, if of militant nature - often make the destruction of undead their priority.

As a goddess of moonlight, illumination, guidance - I feel Darkness domain would act as an appropriate secondary banned domain. This could be further supported by the fact that the Seldarine opposes Shar, whose speciality is darkness itself and Sehanine is fairly close with Selune to boot.

Aerdrie Faenya - Elven goddess of weather, birds, change.
Banned Domain 1 should be Undeath, since all the Seldarine forbids such AND Aerdrie is closely allied with Sehanine.

As a goddess of change, birds and weather, Earth domain I feel would be appropriate to ban. Earth in this case represents stagnation, solidity which goes against Aerdrie's fickle nature.

Hanali Celanil - Elven goddess of beauty, love and art.
Banned Domain 1 should be Undeath, since all the Seldarine forbids such AND Hanali is closely allied with Sehanine.

As a goddess of beauty and art, Destruction could fit as an antithesis of her ideals. Destruction is a bit forced here, like Corellon.


Angharradh - A joint goddess, representing all that is Hanali, Sehanine and Aerdrie, plus family and vigilance
Banned Domain 1 should be Undeath, since all the Seldarine forbids such.

I feel the opposition to Shar and Lolth are the most prominient aspects that merge, and such propose Darkness as a secondary banned domain.

Deep Sashelas - God of dolphins, water, Creation.
Banned Domain 1 should be Undeath, since all the Seldarine forbids such.

Being a god of water, secondary banned domain could be Fire, but also being a god of Creation, Destruction would also fit.

Labelas Enoreth - Elven God of elven longevity, knowledge, time
Banned Domain 1 should be Undeath, since all the Seldarine forbids such.

For sake of variety, Labelas does not have a good relationship with the elven god of Trickery, and Trickery could be taken as falsifying history.

Erevan Ilesere - Elven God of change, frivolousness, pranks, light-hearted nature
Banned Domain 1 should be Undeath, since all the Seldarine forbids such.

Much like Aerdrie, I feel Earth represents best what Erevan opposes, as he advocates for his priests to be ever changing, never staying solid and stagnant like earth.

Solonor Thelandira - Elven God of wisdom, hunting and archery
Banned Domain 1 should be Undeath, since all the Seldarine forbids such.

Solonor most strongly opposes hunting for pleasure, and reckless behaviour. I could thus again propose Destruction. Finding good secondary banned domains for Seldarine is kind of monotone, them all being at war with the Furies/gods of destruction.

Rillifane Rallathir - Elven god of nature
Banned Domain 1 should be Undeath, since all the Seldarine forbids such.

Rillifane, a god of druids, does not have an explicit permission of metal like Mielliki, as such I propose Forge.

Fenmarel Mestarine - Elven god of lone wolves, outcasts, exiles.
Banned Domain 1 should be Undeath, since all the Seldarine forbids such.

Although a neutral god, he should ban Evil, as part of the Seldarine.

Being a god of lone wolves and self-sufficiency, I feel potentially the Heal or Protection domains fit best as banned tertiary domains. Followers of the Lone Wolf do not go out of their way to help others.

Naralis Analor - Sehanine's servant who guides dead souls to Arvandor
Banned Domain 1 should be Undeath, since all the Seldarine forbids such.

As a god of healing and suffering, I feel Destruction. If we wanted to spice up the Seldarine's options from being more or less the same - we could choose Cold in a metaphorical sense, since unlike other gods of death, Naralis seeks to bring warmth and relief to those who passed. This suggestion is only to break up the monotonity of "Gods of creation and enemies of Furies all should bar Destruction"

Shevarash - Elven God of vengeance, destroying all drow and sacrifice
Banned Domain 1 should be Undeath, since all the Seldarine forbids such.

Although Neutral, Shevarash should ban the Evil domain as part of the Seldarine.

Since his primary role is opposing Lolth, his best third banned domain would be the Spider domain. Lacking that, I feel Darkness is the closest fit.

[Archon]

Another one of the Seldarine.

Araleth Letheranil. The prince of stars and twilight.

Banned domain: Darkness and Undeath.

Araleth opposes everything that comes from place of darkness, has spells vs darkness (natural, magical), and avatar of Araleth never uses darkness spells/is unable to. Deity is a power of night and stars, but there's always a specific mention he is not a power of darkness. Opposes Shar, among other similar deities. Deity is specialized in light category spells, to particularly destroy shadow/darkness effects and creatures. Undeath is mentioned as another banned domain due Seldarine tie as listed above.

[Crookedblossom]

Silvanus - Another possible consideration for a banned domain might be Fire. Druids do have the restrictions for metal armor, but I'm not certain if this also extends to his clerics. The dogma of Silvanus states outright, "destroy fire and its employers." I think Forge does work, but in this person's opinion, Fire might be a better fit. And of course Undeath, as has already been added in the list.

Shiallia - Undeath, certainly. I would suggest also Death be a banned domain, because while Shiallia followers understand death to be part of the natural cycle, their faith is more about promoting growth, life and fertility. Shiallia is often considered a midwife figure - an usher of life into the world. That is my reasoning for why Death would be appropriate to ban.

Seelie Fey Deities, such as Titania, Oberon, Verenestra and Nathair Sgiathach - Undeath certainly should be banned, as undead are counter to what the Seelie court stands for and are often employed by the Queen of Air and Darkness. I see that was added, and I agree. Other considerations might be Evil. Perhaps the Darkness domain specifically for Titania, as she is sometimes known as the Queen of Light and the overall motif of her in opposition to the Queen of Air and Darkness seems fitting to have that be a banned domain.

Queen of Air and Darkness - I think the appropriate domains to ban for this particular deity could be Good and Sun. Both of these domains, in my opinion, are in stark contrast to the theme this deity sticks to and would serve as good options for banned domains.

[Red Ropes]

I've gone through and put a bunch of prohibitions for our 200+ deities. Just waiting for Kenji to overlook them, and then I'll probably help implementing. Some of it was based on your guys' suggestions but keep it up.

I basically just went through, compared everything to a deities' relationships with other gods, portfolios, alignments through various catalogues and pdfs over 5 hours.

[Flower Power]

Talona, Goddess of Poisons Diseases pestililence and death should have the Healing Domain Banned. She is still a nature deity but her entire dogma goes against healing and recouperation.

Talona's priests also treat those afflicted by disease. She is not just the goddess of plagues, poisons and disease, but also those afflicted by them, and as long as you pay homage to her you may see your life spared from what ails you.

From faiths and pantheons:

From the text, it specifically says they treat the diseased, not heal and cure them. Akin to Nergal from 40K, Talona's clerics don't actually remove the cause, just treat the symptoms to further allow the progression of the diseases they spread.

They don't heal the lame or cure the sick. Thus, they are not healers. Doctors and Alchemists maybe, but not healers.

Completely incorrect. The Talontar fund themselves largely through a mixture of propitiatory donations and the sale of antidotes and medicines. "Healers" are even noted down in the list of noteworthy groups of worshipers of Talona. Do they also regularly spread plagues? Absolutely - but priests are not their deities, and the behavior of a given church or cult does not always reflect the desires or behavior of the god in question. These things diverge in FR quite regularly.

Back on the topic of banned domains:

Umberlee should also have the Moon Domain banned, as Umberlee is an implacable enemy of Selune.

[Hinty]

All good aligned deities should have Undeath on the banned list, Osirus included.

Can't speak for the more obscure deities so much, would take a little research, but my two cents... (looong two cents)
In the order they show up in F&P

Main pantheon

Azuth: Destruction. Maybe Trickery? Azuth is all about control and restraint and also openness and spreading knowledge.

Bane: While there are plenty that make no real sense for a cleric of Bane (moon, plant, travel, healing...) I struggle to see any that he would be outright opposed to.

Chauntea: Destruction, Undeath. Maybe Death if you want another, while Chauntea accepts death and its role in the world, she demand her people "let no day go past when they have not helped a living thing flourish"

Cyric: Knowledge, Moon/Sun?

Eilistraee: Undeath? Destruction?

Gond: Destruction. Trickery?

Helm: Trickery. Destruction. Darkness.

Ilmater: Undeath. Arguments could be made for War, Death and Destruction.

Kelemvor: Undeath.

Kossuth: Water. Cold.

Lathander: Darkness. Undeath. Perhaps Trickery?

Lolth: Sun. Moon.

Malar: Undeath. Moon. Forge? The hunt is all about the ending of life, undead ruin this, they do not feel the fear of the hunted, so even as dangerous prey they are less satisfying than a live prey. While he is god of Lycanthropy and there is a moon link, he is very much opposed to Selune and the theme of the domain does not suit.

Mask: Sun/Moon? Not sold on these, can't have shadows without light, and Moon is in fact pretty suited spell list wise, and plenty of thieves work under the moonlight, I might even argue that Moon is a preferred choice for him. Sun on the other hand has a significant number of spells that create bright lights, so would suit for a ban more.

Mielikki: Fire, Destruction, Death. While these are aspects of nature that Mielikki accepts, and would expect her clerics to utilise them, she would not go around granting spells to someone who champions or glorifies in them.

Mystra: Destruction. War? Mystra very much focuses on careful and restrained use of magic.

Oghma: Destruction. Trickery.

Selune: Darkness. Undeath. Sun? While she isn't opposed to the sun it would be a bit weird to see her followers using sun based powers? Then again perhaps they could be argued to be moonlight? Hell, moonlight is just reflected sunlight.

Shar: Moon, Sun

Shaundakul: Earth. Darkness? Trickery? He is very much in favour of being open and helpful....

Silvanus: Undeath. Fire.

Sune: Destruction. Undeath?

Talos: Protection. Knowledge. Forge.

Tempus: Trickery? While ambush, feints and deception are very much acceptable tactics in the eyes of Tempus, political chicanery and deception are not, and the Trickery domain is very much a social deception rather than martial deception thing.

Torm: Trickery. Darkness.

Tymora: Honestly? She is far too open and vague a goddess for any of the domains on the list to really be anathema to her. Evil sure, Destruction and Undeath? I suppose...

Tyr: Trickery. Darkness.

Umberlee: Fire. Earth. Acid. Forge?

Uthgar: Hell, this guy is a mess, it would have to be a by totem thing, and even then there is precious little actual information on the dogma of each totem. Nothing banned.

Waukeen: Destruction? (This ones showing up a lot....) You could argue trickery since she demands that provably false claims should be refuted, but deception and misdirection are a big part of trade, and lets not forget that smuggling/black markets are trade too.

Lesser human deities

Akadi: Earth. Acid.

Auril: Fire. Sun. Forge.

Beshaba: Perhaps Forge? lucky horseshoe and such? I dunno... nothing really fits. Or rather fails to fit enough...

Deneir: Destruction. Trickery.

Eldath: War. Death. Fire. Forge.

Finder: Perhaps Protection....? Finder teaches that all things come to an end, if something is endangered it must change or accept its fate.

Gargauth: Honestly? Nothing short of Good is off the table with this guy. Even things like Sun which do not remotely fit him, I could see him granting in order for his followers to deceive others. (Infiltrating an Aumator cult anyone?)

Gwaeron: Destruction. Fire. Same argument as Mielikki

Hoar: Destruction? All punishment must be equal to the crime, so a cleric that likes to go for the big boom right off the bat doesn't really fit...

Istishia: Fire. Forge.

Jergal: Healing? Trickery? Bit of a stretch but otherwise i got nothing.

Lliira: Perhaps War? Strength? Destruction?

Loviatar: Healing. Protection.

Lurue: Darkness. Destruction. Trickery?

Milil: Destruction. Trickery. Waaaar?

Nobanion: Trickery. Darkness?

Red Knight: Trickery? Unlike Tempus, the Red Knight is not so against the use of politics to change the friend/foe dynamic.

Savras: Trickery. Darkness?

Sharess: Other than evil i got nothing... undeath i guess?

Shiallia: Death? Destruction? See Mielikki.

Siamorph: Tickery. Darkness.

Talona: Strength. Protection. Forge. Talona is all about bringing weakness, the eroding of defenses. She is not, however, Nurgle. The dead can not pray. Talona is a protection racket. "Pray to me and you wont get sick. Offer me no prayers and sickness will come. If you are sick, pray to me and I might see fit to lift the illness" Almost all of her followers will be expected to heal and cure the sick if they offer deference. After all, the Dead can not offer worship.

Tiamat: A tricky one... Sun perhaps? Moon? Plant? Mainly just looking for areas that Chromatic Dragons don't have an interest.

Ubtao: Cold. Forge? Undeath?

Ulutiu: Fire. Forge. Magic. Arcane magic is a blasphemy.

Valkur: Destruction. Storm. Earth. Acid.

Velsharoon: Sun. Healing?

I'll skip the elf/dwarf/drow pantheons since I am not so well aquainted with them.

Gnomes

Baervan: Undeath. Destruction. Lets face it Urdlen is Destruction personified, so all the Gnome deities will be very much against it.

Baravar: Destruction. Strength? War? While he doesn't opose such things, he does kind of treat them as last resorts, if you have to stand and fight, you done screwed up. A cleric who focuses on them has very much missed the point of his teachings.

Callarduran: Air. Storm. Destruction.

Flandal: Air. Storm. Destruction.

Gaerdal: Trickery? Darkness? Illusion is very much a core part of Gnome culture, but Ironhand is one deity that brakes away from that.

Garl: Strength? War? Death? Subjects that are far too ridgid and serious for a trickster like Garl.

Segojan: Air. Storm. Destruction.

Urdlen: Protection. Forge. Knowledge.

Halflings

Arvoreen: Dunno... undeath? Most tactics are fair game so long as its against enemies. There are plenty that don't fit, but none that I can see him being outright against except evil/undeath.

Brandobaris: War? Strength?

Cyrrollalee: Trickery. Darkness. War.

Sheela: War? Forge? Things that have no real place in the natural world even if she isn't against them they simply have no place in her arsenal.

Urogolan: Undeath. Air. Storm.

Yondalla: Darkness? Destruction?

Mullhorand

Anhur: Trickery. Darkness.

Geb: Air: Storm. Trickery?

Hathor: Darkness. Death? Trickery?

Horus-Re: Trickery. Darkness.

Isis: Destruction? Trickery? Another magic deity who teaches restraint and the use of magic to create rather than destroy when possible.

Nephthys: Trickery. Darkness. Undead?

Osiris: Trickery. Darkness. Undeath. Protection of the resting dead is a prime role of clerics of Osiris. Animation of the dead is anathema.

Sebek: Air. Fire. Storm.

Set: Sun. Moon. Set is probably the reason most of the pantheon oppose trickery/darkness.

Thoth: Trickery. Forge. While Thoth is all about the creation of magical items, he does expect his followers to avoid the use of weapons whenever possible. Magic is their weapon. Not steel.

Orcs

Bahgtru: Knowledge. Protection. Forge. Healing? The strong will always prevail. Defense is for those not strong enough to crush their foes swiftly, and Injury is the result.

Gruumsh: Healing. Knowledge. While Gruumsh probably recognises the value of such things, he is unlikely to have the time for anyone who champions such. The weak and wounded only slow the tribe.

Ilneval: Protection? While he is a more level headed and tactical war god (when it comes to orc war gods) he is not exactly a fan of caution or defensive tactics on the battlefield.

Luthic: Air. Storm. War? There are war gods aplenty in the pantheon, it is unlikely a war focused cleric would worship Luthic.

Shargaas: Sun. Air. Storm. War? Strength?

Yurtrus: Strength. As with Talona, while he is a god of disease(and perhaps even more cold and distant than she is) his clerics are the ones the tribe turn to when they are afflicted, they are also the ones who maintain the food stores and ensure there is no spoiled food. There is even a movement amongst the orcs towards viewing him as a god of sustenance and healing. So banning Healing as a domain would not really fit.

Destruction/Trickery/Darkness are something of a theme it seems.

The main issue is just that there are plenty of domains that do not remotely fit deities whilst not being opposed to them, and some for whom there could well be more than 3 that should be banned...

I personally would like to see two lists, one of domains that are banned, and one of domains that are required. You get two choices, and have to have at least 1 that is strongly themed to the deity.

[Drogo Gyslain]

Completely incorrect. The Talontar fund themselves largely through a mixture of propitiatory donations and the sale of antidotes and medicines. "Healers" are even noted down in the list of noteworthy groups of worshipers of Talona. Do they also regularly spread plagues? Absolutely - but priests are not their deities, and the behavior of a given church or cult does not always reflect the desires or behavior of the god in question. These things diverge in FR quite regularly.

Completely Incorrect? Alright, let's break this down.

Talona, Mother of Plagues. First introduced in the original AD&D 1st Edition as the Lady of Poisons, Mistress of Disease and one of the Dark Gods of Evil, servant of Bane and Bhal. Often associated with Evil Magic-Casters, Assasins and Clerics.

Her entire profile, from day one, has set her aside as a bringer of Death and disfiguring curses, and this has not changed. Into 3.5, as already referenced, her portfolio remains the same.

In 3rd and 3.5 Edition, her domains were defined as Blightbringer, Chaos, Destruction, Envy, Evil and suffering. Her entire profile was centered around the proliferation of Disease and Pain, with the intent on spreading that disease as far and as reaching as possible.

The Talontar fund themselves largely through a mixture of propitiatory donations and the sale of antidotes and medicines

The Talontar make antidotes, alright so what constitutes an antidote? It is a counteraction of a poison. It stops the effect of an existing toxin, it does not heal the body or repair the damage. The body is left with the effects of whatever the poison is, be it nightshade or snakebite.

The Talontar also make medicines, alright so what constitutes a medicine? It is anything that treats symptoms or aids in recovery. Yarrow Leaf extract is a common one in the setting. Helping repair damage using plant extracts or other things of it's like is a normal action, but doesn't constitute great healing or recovery granted through the use of the Healing Domain. Medicine is just a mundane or magical aid to repair the body but is not overly powerful, and would be available to any cleric normally. It also doesn't say anything about the medicines effectiveness, or the Talontar's potential to use medicine as a way to hijack trust, which is their way, where Talonites often will try to sow seeds and rumors to augment Talona's reputation. It wouldn't be too hard of a stretch to imagine they would also sell less than potent medicines as a snake-oil type sale, but, that is just conjecture on my part.

Just because they make and sell antidotes, does not make them appropriate for the Healing Domain.

Healers, and the Healing domain focus on exceptional healing. Their focus is to eliminate suffering, relieve pain, and bring restored health to the masses. Those gods of FR who fall within the Healing domain are Berronar Truesilver, Ilmater (who is bitterly opposed to both Loviatar and Talona, and she deeply disliked for his ability to find cures), Lurue, Luthic, Sharindlar, and Torm.

The Healing domain viewed from this light is for those devoted to the opposition of death and disease. Regardless of the views of the priest, the power comes from the Divine Being.

Clerics and Druids do not get to pick what overrides their god's law. A Cleric of Talona who receives power from her is going to be beholden to doing everything they can to spread the propagation of disease and widespread infection to please her, not eradicate a plague and stop it in it's tracks. Their powers would be used in twisted and dark ways, to keep victims alive, and remove the pain while allowing the propagation of the disease, carriers created to appear normal and healthy.

In text it even outright says:

What seems to motivate Talonites in their day-to-day behavior is a quest for respect that is due to Talona for her potentially devastating abilities

Throughout their careers, Talona's clerics work with magic and study to build their personal immunities to various poisons and diseases. This protected, they treat the diseased, take employment as food tasters for paranoid rulers, wealthy merchants and nobles, and bury those who have died from disease. Whenever a realm casts out or punishes Talonites, the clerics will work to cause a plague to extract "Talona's Price" for such insults."

This, does not lend itself in any way to being someone who would follow a healing domain to remove disease. It is quite literally the opposite reaction one would expect or demand from someone who should be an enhanced healer and a follower of the Healer's Domain.

I don't see where I am "Completely Incorrect" as you put it. Talona is a deity that revels in Death and pestilence. She is described as a Petulant, Greedy Child trapped in the body of a once beautiful woman scarred by horrific disease. This is the depiction of a god who would be outraged if a follower disobeyed her orders and created cures for her plagues and healed those who suffered in her name. The Depictions of her History of her actions through various source materials do not object to this occurring.

To Quote 3.5E again, her Dogma Specifically...

Let all living things learn respect from Talona, and pay homage to her in goods and in fervent worship. If they do so, interceded for them so that Talona will not claim them, this time. Go, and work in Talona's name and let your doings be subtle or spectacular, but let them known as the will of the Mistress of Disease.

[MissEvelyn]

Do keep in mind that this thread is asking for suggestions (based on conclusive lore) to prohibit domains, not which deities favor which domains. We ban Trickery for Tyr, for example, because the dogma specifically instructs Tyr's followers to never be untruthful.
Auril instructs her followers to put out fires wherever they see them. In this way, fire is prohibited.

Is there any text or dogma within the church and faith of Talona that prohibits healing or demands that healing must be halted? If not, the Healing domain probably shouldn't be banned.

[Kenji]

Hello all,
Just a friendly reminder (as MissEvelyn already pointed out) - we're here to discuss banned domains for Arelith deities rather than favored ones. The team didn't reach this point lightly, the main reasons why we are excluding deity's favored domains, whether it had mechanical benefits or not, are the following:

1. Player agency - while there are a few obvious domains that certain deities would oppose, there are more that is not exactly black or white when it comes to domain choices and we would like players to retain their agency rather than decide it for them on which domains they can only select. As you can see, this thread already has conflicting views and, much like actual clergy interactions in the realms on what their deities want, it'll be easier if we have banned domains rather than favored/offered domains.
2. Limited domain slots for development - we don't have all of the domains to support the full list of domains that each deity supports. Our current setup will probably allow up to a few more custom domains before we literally run out of space for their descriptions.
3. Deity meta - if we limit domains to certain deities only, we will face the same problem as when Enchantment Foci and K&I deities were used for Basin Enchantments (pre-dweomercraft change) where certain deities are favored such as Red Knight, Bel, or Jergal over the popular ones such as Bane, Helm, or Ilmater due to the fact that the latter did not offer K&I to help with basin.
4. Workload - There will be 200+ deities, banned domains are a good compromise between letting all deities have all domains or allowing a select few domains for certain deities. Not only will there be less workload on the development end, but we will also be avoiding the above-listed problems.

Again, we appreciate all of your inputs, disagreements may arise but remember to keep your posts about the same deity to a limit. If you feel like you have some more cases to make, send the DM to me or discuss it with me on discord: Kenji#0004

Looks like there are a lot more changes coming and I will update the spreadsheet when I can.

The spreadsheet for banned domains:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

[Svrtr]

Ok going to go through all the dwarven deities because I like dwarves, don't judge me. (I will also now add on here that undeath makes sense for pretty much every dwarven god of the mordinsamman except abbathor and the duergar gods)


Gorm Gulthyn - Trickery already makes sense, however a second banned domain for him is difficult given what we have. Evil already being banned as him being a LG deity makes sense, so all I can think of is destruction given that his portfolio includes the defense of all stoutfolk (notably dwarves), and so what would make sense to follow without bounds of logical leaps is defense of dwarven holds. However destruction is weak in this regard.

Berronar Truesilver - Already trickery and undeath, makes sense.

Clangeddin Silverbeard - Already undeath again. I would argue trickery as his domain/portfolio is one of relentless training in pursuit of martial perfection, and it is noted that he strictly does not tolerate trickery or deceit.

Marthammor Duin - Once again, undeath makes sense because ancestors. Banning death as a domain would also make sense for the fact his Volamtar were known to leave caches of food on paths and heal injured travelers, and also for the fact they were known to heal their kin and support dwarven life in major human cities. It would also make sense since as travelers they were known for enjoying to travel to distant lands and enjoy cultures of others.

Sharindlar - It is at this point I will say banning undeath from the Morndinsamman makes sense so Ill stop saying it. Another one for Sharindlar would be either death or destruction, if not both, as she is a goddess of fertility and animal husbandry, supporting a home life among dwarves. In a sense she is like a younger more hip version of Berronar so to speak, more focused on the love of marriage than the family life of marriage. Her clergy were often found healing and overseeing rites of marriage so death and destruction doesn't make sense.

Thard Harr - I would have to say either knowledge or magic would be best banned here. Not per se for a hatred of either, but wild dwarves were a fearful subspecies of dwarf who lived very much in a hunter gatherer society, and it is noted that they had a fear of arcane magics and so Thard Harr's association as the patron deity of wild dwarves would mean banning magic as a domain would make sense. Knowledge is more the lack of wild dwarves being a civilization. It is a weaker argument than magic but not unfounded. Perhaps forge for a similar reason, but again, a weak argument.

Abbathor - Ah. The evil liar god of thieves. Good is of course already banned, but more than that I think healing and/or protection would make sense as his portfolio is "the acquisition of any and all wealth by any means necessary", so I don't think an abbathorian would risk harm to themselves in the defense of others without some immense monetary or material gain.

Deep Duerra - I do still stand by saying that a psionic/mind domain should be added (and also it would allow for some enchanter clerics) as it is stated she scorns arcane magic as being the tools of the weak willed in favor of psionics, but if one was to add another domain then either knowledge or protection. The former largely hinges on the fact that it is stated she thinks the origins of the duergar irrelevant, and the fact they exist know and have psionic potential is more important than their history. The latter is for the fact that heir northor preach a heavy expansionist philosophy and scorn the older members of duergar society who prefer to defend their own land and claims instead of going out and claiming more, along with the fact deep duerra loves conquest for the act of conquest not for the actual acquisition of resources.

Diirinka - The mad derro god definitely should not be one for protection. One could argue the sun probably. Ill admit the derro gods I am less well versed on and they're a bit vague.

Dugmaren Brightmantle - Honestly I have nothing that really makes sense to ban for Dugmaren. If there were law and chaos as domains, probably law but other than that... ehhhh?

Dumathoin - Undeath for sure since it isn't already on there and his portfolio includes dwarven burials and he is known as the protector of the dwarven dead. Destruction is probably another good one to be considered for the fact his portfolio is, again, secrets under the mountain but also exploration of lands underground and to a lesser degree the acquisition of materials underground. Else air for similar reasons because of his whole "under the mountain" motif.

Haela Brightaxe - Ahhhh, the laughing warrior princess. The lady of the fray. My personal favorite dwarven god but that's besides the point. Definitely trickery. She threw herself wildly into the fray and encouraged others to, but preferred, and I quote "No holds barred bar brawls" and as such did not go in with a plan, but was averse to trickery and deceit that took the risk and thrill of battle out of a fight. I would also argue magic as one, as it is stated how she was incapable of stopping magic attacks but often avoided them in fights with her movement. She was gregarious, always laughing, always upbeat, by far the most positive of the dwarven gods I'd say. And loved to fight. And encouraged fighting. It is why there is a quote of a haelan dwarf after being asked why they attacked an ancient dragon was quoted as saying they wanted to and always wanted to cut their way out of something's stomach. They're direct and honest, so trickery and magic are my domains of choice for Haela to be banned.

LaDuguer - Probably healing honestly. He's spiteful and encourages spite in his followers, he is spite incarnate. Healing is secondary to vengeance. And also I can't think of a great domain for him other than healing and good by default.

Moradin - Trickery without a doubt. He is a god of honest hard labour and encourages honest hard labour. Destruction too as he is a forge god focused on creation.

Vergadain - He is undoubtedly the only dwarven god I would say should outright ban war as a domain. His portfolio is also the acquisition of wealth, but also legal knowledge. He charges his clerics with becoming and maintaining wealth, and war is bad for trade and for keeping the temples of his wealthy. Perhaps destruction for a similar reason, that being it deters the acquisition of wealth and trade.


OK I am finally done and Ill admit got a bit lazy near the end. My 2 cents on the dwarven gods we have

[Deryliss]

I'm honestly torn on the Talona thing.

On one hand, its totally true that Talona is known as a goddess of 'healing', in the same sense as Umberlee is known as a goddess of 'sailors', with her clergy being experts at their field (though arguably for the 'wrong' reasons, compared to someone like Ilmater). In this sense, it doesn't make sense to block Healing.

At the same time, it also *feels* wrong, but I think in part that is covered by what Kenji laid out. Since we'll have limited domain slots, and adding niche domains like Suffering or Oceans or whatnot, we can't afford to be too rigid in interpreting the domains.

So I guess I would be inclined to agree that Talona should be allowed the healing domain, and that blocking healing should be only for deities that specifically oppose the practice altogether.

On the downside, I think we also risk a handful of domains becoming defaults for banning, as Darkness seems to be getting lined up a bit in the suggestions as an example. It's a real pickle and not an easy balancing act by any means

Hopefully once we have a more complete draft in the excel sheet we'll get better aligned with what the thought process/philosophy is and we'll be better able to contribute as well.

[Opustus]

Gond bans Destruction? About building stuff.

Savras bans Trickery? All about truth.

Kelemvor bans undeath? About killing undead.

[Spriggan Bride]

Gond bans Destruction? About building stuff.

But controlled demolition goes hand in hand with construction. Knowing how to take down constructs is also extremely Gond-y.

TBH I think it's very possible to overthink some of these. I worry a bit about limiting creativity if you're only going by casual interpretations of how deities ought to be over actual lore.