Lots to consider. Can i just point out that ive seen at least one commenter suggest banning destruction for a god whos aspect is War and DESTRUCTION.
Furthermore just because a god is pro invention and creation doesnt make them anti destruction. Shiva is the god of creation and destruction. Sometimes you make something and later decide it is better to unmake it.
(I realise this is probably a butchering of shivas actual role but i hope it gets the point across)
Leave them open and script tools that make it relatively painless for a DM to change a character's domains. Invest DM time in supervising divine RP and slapping people with changes for egregious wrongness. The clerics and paladins of the server could benefit with more monitoring of their faith as it is.
Mechanical solutions cannot effectively replace invested DMs that watch their setting. Coincidentally, the property change suffers similarly...
Opustus wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:57 pm
Gond bans Destruction? About building stuff.
But controlled demolition goes hand in hand with construction. Knowing how to take down constructs is also extremely Gond-y.
TBH I think it's very possible to overthink some of these. I worry a bit about limiting creativity if you're only going by casual interpretations of how deities ought to be over actual lore.
Good points! You're totally right.
Characters: all poor babies suffering from neglect
One of Gond's holy rites involves creating two copies of any new inventions - one for archival at a Gondar temple, and the other to be ritual smashed (or, preferably, burned) as an offering to Gond and a reminder that invention and innovation covers the creative as well as the destructive spheres.
TooManyPotatoes wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:07 am
Lots to consider. Can i just point out that ive seen at least one commenter suggest banning destruction for a god whos aspect is War and DESTRUCTION.
Furthermore just because a god is pro invention and creation doesnt make them anti destruction. Shiva is the god of creation and destruction. Sometimes you make something and later decide it is better to unmake it.
(I realise this is probably a butchering of shivas actual role but i hope it gets the point across)
Arelith aspects are kind of homebrew.
If one considers the history of the Seldarine - they are all gods of creations, bar maybe Shevarash.
Even their gods of war advocate for defensive/liberation wars rather than blind crusading or reaving.
While Vandria is not present on Arelith - she best represents the elven approach to war: End it as soon as possible to reduce the destruction and pain it brings.
Angharradh follows a similar idea - stay ever vigilant and squash seeds of evil before it turns into a full blown war.
Corellon - his focus is on protecting the elven way of life - which is about creation of scholarly knowledge, of art and beauty. He champions war to protect these very values.
An elven army on the march will go out of its way to minimize the damage their foraging causes to the environment. Elven mages are expected to be extra careful about their spells to avoid permanent damage to nature. Yes, Miyeritar DID happen but that's taught as a "Don't do that ever again, punks" in the tower of Sun and Moon.
War is a domain that fits many elven gods. Destruction? If they allowed for wanton destruction, they'd not be at eternal war with Talos and Malar and Auril and Umberlee.
Even Aerdrie, who has multiple examples of bringing down a storm or wild fire to bring about change and renewal - is different from destruction.
Talos, he'd blow up a forest or burn it down or what have you JUST to destroy and revel in the pain it brings to the creatures present, and the fear they feel towards nature.
Aerdrie instead will bring about fire or storms to encourage adaption, change, renewal. She is the goddess who will burn the undergrowth and humus to give nutrients to the trees and other plants. This is better represented by Storms and Fire, rather than Destruction.
I have composed as massive list with some locked domains on behalf of Kenji. I will also be updating the master list in the OP with this information in time but I am going to let you guys look at it, make other suggestions, and maybe even show me something I've missed. Also for some of the powers (such as the demon lords, archdevils, I subcontracted some work to Kuma.)
I have not really made any of these decisions arbitrarily either. The vast majority of these come from the portfolios of these gods' opposites, or 'WHO THE HATE THE MOST' in some cases, and in other racial weaknesses of their creations if they don't have any relationships with anything.
Keep in mind that:
GOOD aligned powers do not have EVIL or UNDEATH DOMAIN.
EVIL aligned powers do not have GOOD domain.
Any time you see that on the board its probably because the deity is neutral but is aligned toward good or evil. Or might be for a stylistic reason (like the Dark Moon heresy forbidding both).
If you see anything marked with "VOID" it is because it only has default restriction (GOOD or EVIL) or currently has nothing to really oppose.
---
Also as some people seem to be confused - just to explain the domain changes sort of got uploaded a little early but it didn't cause anything catastrophic. This is just /phase I/ of an ongoing project sure to have tweaks and even eventual additions of new domains.
You'll also understand that some things like say ACID domain or FORGE are not directly PnP domains but composites of several in order to make more "generic" or modular approach. Acid is acid because if we called it Slime people wouldn't feel good taking it on say a god of nature.
Also try not to think of a god forbidding something in all cases as being like "DONT USE AN IMP INVIS WAND". It just means that as a power they don't give you that stuff.
There are no plans currently to restrict plant or animal outright.
There is more to come with this stuff but we'll all be waiting patiently together.
Also ignore the case returns. I'm lazy and copy pasting.
---
FAERUNIAN PANTHEON
GREATER POWERS
case 1: return "Akadi"; - EARTH
case 4: return "Bane"; - TRAVEL
case 6: return "Chauntea"; - DEATH
case 7: return "Cyric"; - KNOWLEDGE
case 15: return "Grumbar"; - AIR, STORM, TRAVEL
case 20: return "Istishia"; - FIRE
case 22: return "Kelemvor"; - EVIL, UNDEATH
case 23: return "Kossuth"; - WATER, COLD
case 24: return "Lathander"; - DEATH, DARKNESS, TRICKERY
case 33: return "Mystra"; - FORGE
case 35: return "Oghma"; - DESTRUCTION
case 39: return "Shar"; - SUN, MOON
case 44: return "Silvanus"; - UNDEATH, FORGE
case 45: return "Sune"; - DEATH, DESTRUCTION, WAR
case 47: return "Talos"; - SUN, MOON, KNOWLEDGE
case 48: return "Tempus"; - TRICKERY
case 52: return "Tyr"; - TRICKERY, TRAVEL
case 53: return "Ubtao"; - UNDEATH, DARKNESS
INTERMEDIATE POWERS
case 5: return "Beshaba"; - [VOID]
case 14: return "Gond"; - MAGIC
case 17: return "Helm"; - TRICKERY, UNDEATH, DARKNESS
case 19: return "Ilmater"; - DESTRUCTION
case 31: return "Mielikki"; - FORGE
case 38: return "Selune"; - DARKNESS
case 51: return "Tymora"; - [VOID]
case 55: return "Umberlee"; - EARTH, FIRE, MOON
LESSER POWERS
case 2: return "Auril"; - FIRE, SUN
case 3: return "Azuth"; - TRICKERY
case 137: return "Bahamut"; - TRICKERY, TRAVEL
case 8: return "Deneir"; - TRICKERY
case 10: return "Eldath"; - WAR, DESTRUCTION, DEATH
case 25: return "Lliira"; - DEATH, DESTRUCTION
case 27: return "Loviatar"; - HEALING, TRAVEL
case 29: return "Malar"; - KNOWLEDGE
case 30: return "Mask"; - KNOWLEDGE, SUN, MOON
case 32: return "Milil"; - DEATH, DESTRUCTION
case 41: return "Shaundakul"; - EVIL, DARKNESS, UNDEATH
case 46: return "Talona"; - HEALING
case 49: return "Tiamat"; - TRAVEL
case 50: return "Torm"; - TRICKERY, TRAVEL
case 59: return "Waukeen"; - DESTRUCTION
DEMIPOWERS
case 174: return "Auppenser"; - UNDEATH
case 11: return "Finder Wyvernspur"; - EVIL, DARKNESS, UNDEATH
case 12: return "Garagos"; - TRICKERY
case 13: return "Gargauth"; - HEALING
case 16: return "Gwaeron Windstrom"; - FORGE
case 18: return "Hoar"; - UNDEATH
case 21: return "Jergal"; - HEALING, SUN, TRAVEL
case 28: return "Lurue"; - DARKNESS, FORGE
case 34: return "Nobanion"; - TRICKERY
case 175: return "Poseidon"; - FIRE
case 36: return "Red Knight"; - TRICKERY
case 37: return "Savras"; - TRICKERY
case 40: return "Sharess"; - DEATH, DARKNESS, WAR
case 42: return "Shiallia"; - DEATH, FORGE
case 43: return "Siamorphe"; - EVIL, TRICKERY, UNDEATH
case 54: return "Ulutiu"; - FIRE
case 56: return "Uthgar"; - UNDEATH, MAGIC, FORGE
case 57: return "Valkur"; - STORM
case 58: return "Velsharoon"; - SUN, MOON, PLANT
HERESIES
case 166: return "Risen Sun Heresy"; DEATH, DARKNESS, TRICKERY
case 167: return "Three-Faced Sun Heresy"; EVIL, GOOD, UNDEATH
case 168: return "Dark Moon Heresy"; EVIL, GOOD, SUN
case 169: return "Cult of Shared Suffering"; EVIL, UNDEATH, DESTRUCTION
case 170: return "Harlot's Coin Heresy"; HEALING, DESTRUCTION, TRAVEL
case 171: return "Freth Heresy"; SUN, MOON, TRAVEL
ASPECTS
case 194: return "Leira"; - GOOD, KNOWLEDGE (Cyric)
case 195: return "Ibrandul"; - MOON, SUN (Shar)
case 196: return "Eshowdow"; - GOOD, MOON, SUN (Shar)
case 197: return "Bright Nydra"; - DARKNESS (Selune)
case 198: return "Entropy"; - MAGIC, TRAVEL (Tiamat)
case 199: return "Tchazzar"; - TRAVEL (Tiamat)
case 200: return "Malyk"; - SUN, MOON, PLANT (Talos, member of Dark Seldarine)
case 201: return "Nebelun"; - MAGIC (Gond, Member of Gnomish pantheon)
case 202: return "Avachel"; - EVIL, UNDEATH (Hlal, member of Seldarine)
case 203: return "Bes"; - EVIL, UNDEATH (Vergadain, member of Mulhorandi Pantheon)
MAZTICAN PANTHEON
case 207: return "Maztica"; - UNDEATH
case 208: return "Qotal"; - DEATH, WAR
case 209: return "Zaltec"; - HEALING
case 210: return "Azul"; - FIRE
case 211: return "Tezca"; - DARKNESS, WATER
case 212: return "Plutoq"; - AIR, STORM, TRAVEL
case 213: return "Kiltzi"; - WAR, DEATH
case 214: return "Watil"; - WAR, DEATH
case 215: return "Nula"; - UNDEATH
case 216: return "Eha"; - EARTH
MULHORANDI PANTHEON
case 111: return "Anhur"; DARKNESS, TRICKERY
case 112: return "Geb"; - AIR, STORM, UNDEATH
case 113: return "Hathor"; - DARKNESS, WAR
case 65: return "Horus-Re"; - DARKNESS, TRICKERY
case 93: return "Isis"; DARKNESS
case 94: return "Nephthys"; TRICKERY
case 95: return "Osiris"; DARKNESS, TRICKERY
case 131: return "Sebek"; FIRE, COLD
case 97: return "Thoth"; DESTRUCTION
case 96: return "Set"; SUN, MOON
LORDS OF THE GOLDEN HILLS
case 62: return "Garl Glittergold"; - DARKNESS, DEATH
case 84: return "Baervan Wildwanderer"; DARKNESS
case 85: return "Callarduran Smoothhands"; EVIL, UNDEATH
case 86: return "Flandal Steelskin"; WATER
case 109: return "Gaerdal Ironhand"; TRICKERY, DARKNESS
case 87: return "Segojan Earthcaller"; [VOID]
case 88: return "Urdlen"; SUN, MOON, PROTECTION
case 108: return "Baravar Cloakshadow"; [VOID]
MORNDINSAMMAN
case 60: return "Moradin"; DESTRUCTION, DEATH
case 69: return "Abbathor"; HEALING
case 70: return "Berronar Truesilver"; DEATH
case 71: return "Clangeddin Silverbeard"; TRICKERY
case 103: return "Dugmaren Brightmantle"; TRICKERY, DARKNESS
case 72: return "Dumathoin"; EVIL, UNDEATH, TRAVEL
case 104: return "Gorm Gulthyn"; TRICKERY, DARKNESS
case 128: return "Haela Brightaxe"; HEALING
case 105: return "Marthammor Duin"; DARKNESS
case 74: return "Sharindlar"; DARKNESS
case 75: return "Vergadain"; UNDEATH
case 106: return "Thard Harr"; FORGE
case 73: return "Laduguer"; HEALING
case 127: return "Deep Duerra"; MAGIC
case 224: return "Hanseath"; UNDEATH
YONDALLA'S CHILDREN
case 63: return "Yondalla"; DEATH
case 89: return "Arvoreen"; TRICKERY
case 130: return "Urogalan"; EVIL, UNDEATH, AIR
case 90: return "Cyrrollalee"; TRICKERY
case 91: return "Sheela Peryroyl"; EVIL, UNDEATH, FORGE
case 110: return "Brandobaris"; EVIL, UNDEATH, KNOWLEDGE
SELDARINE
case 61: return "Corellon Larethian"; DEATH, DESTRUCTION, DARKNESS
case 76: return "Aerdrie Faenya"; EARTH
case 64: return "Angharradh"; EARTH, DARKNESS, DESTRUCTION
case 77: return "Deep Sashelas"; FIRE
case 78: return "Erevan Ilesere"; EVIL, UNDEATH
case 107: return "Fenmarel Mestarine"; EVIL, HEALING, UNDEATH
case 79: return "Hanali Celanil"; DESTRUCTION
case 80: return "Labelas Enoreth"; DARKNESS
case 81: return "Rillifane Rallathil"; FORGE
case 82: return "Sehanine Moonbow"; DARKNESS
case 129: return "Shevarash"; EVIL, UNDEATH
case 83: return "Solonor Thelandira"; FORGE
case 158: return "Naralis Analor"; DARKNESS
case 225: return "Tethrin Veraldé"; DARKNESS
case 226: return "Kirith Sotheril"; DARKNESS
case 227: return "Araleth Letheranil"; DARKNESS
case 228: return "Sarula Iliene"; FIRE
case 229: return "Melira Taralen"; DESTRUCTION
case 230: return "Mythrien Sarath"; TRICKERY
case 231: return "Alathrien Druanna"; EVIL, UNDEATH
YUIR PANTHEON
case 232: return "Elikarashae"; EVIL, UNDEATH (Aspect of Shevarash)
case 233: return "Magnar"; FORGE (Aspect of Rilifane)
case 234: return "Relkath"; FORGE (Aspect of Rilifane)
case 235: return "Simbul"; DARKNESS (Aspect of Labelas)
case 236: return "Zandilar"; DEATH, WAR, DARKNESS (Aspect of Sharess/Bast)
FEY POWERS
SEELIE
case 68: return "Titania"; DARKNESS, DEATH
case 123: return "Oberon"; DARKNESS, FORGE
case 124: return "Verenestra"; DARKNESS, DESTRUCTION
case 98: return "Nathair Sgiathach"; DARKNESS
UNSEELIE
case 99: return "Queen of Air and Darkness"; SUN, MOON, HEALING
DARK SELDARINE
case 26: return "Lolth"; SUN, MOON, TRAVEL
case 101: return "Ghaunadaur"; MOON, PLANT, SUN
case 125: return "Kiaransalee"; SUN, MOON, PLANT
case 126: return "Selvetarm"; SUN, MOON, HEALING
case 102: return "Vhaeraun"; KNOWLEDGE, SUN, MOON
case 9: return "Eilistraee"; DARKNESS
THE TRIBE OF HE-WHO-WATCHES
case 66: return "Gruumsh"; HEALING
case 114: return "Bahgtru"; KNOWLEDGE, MAGIC
case 115: return "Ilneval"; TRICKERY
case 116: return "Luthic"; DESTRUCTION
case 118: return "Yurtrus"; PLANT, HEALING
case 117: return "Shargaas"; SUN, MOON
GOBLIN POWERS
case 67: return "Maglubiyet"; HEALING
case 120: return "Bargrivyek"; WAR
case 121: return "Khurgorbaeyag"; MAGIC
case 193: return "Nomog-Geaya"; HEALING
YUAN-TI POWERS
case 155: return "Sseth"; COLD (Set pretends to be him.)
case 204: return "Varae"; GOOD, FIRE, COLD (Aspect of Sseth but also Set)
case 205: return "Sss’thasine’ss"; HEALING, COLD (Aspect of Talona)
case 206: return "Merrshaulk"; KNOWLEDGE, COLD (Aspect of Sseth - but also Set.)
KOBOLD POWERS
case 153: return "Kurtulmak"; COLD
case 135: return "Gaknulak"; WAR, TRAVEL, COLD
DRACONIC POWERS
case 185: return "Asgorath"; DESTRUCTION, EVIL, GOOD
case 186: return "Null"; SUN, MOON
case 187: return "Task"; [VOID]
case 188: return "Astilabor"; GOOD, EVIL
case 189: return "Garyx"; WATER, COLD
case 190: return "Hlal"; DARKNESS
case 191: return "Lendys"; TRICKERY, DARKNESS
case 192: return "Tamara"; DARKNESS
GNOLL CREATOR
case 133: return "Gorellik"; GOOD, EVIL, UNDEATH
MOONSHAEN FIRBOLG GOD
case 172: return "Grond Peaksmasher"; UNDEATH
OGRE GOD
case 152: return "Vaprak"; KNOWLEDGE, FORGE
TROGDOLYTE GOD
case 157: return "Laogzed"; HEALING
SAHAUGIN GOD (worshipped by madmen)
case 173: return "Sekolah"; EARTH
MINDFLAYER GOD (worshipped by madmen)
case 237: return "Ilsensine"; SUN, PLANT, ANIMAL
BEHOLDER GOD (worshiped by primative madmen)
case 238: return "Great Mother"; SUN, PLANT, ANIMAL
DERRO PANTHEON
case 156: return "Diirinka"; HEALING, SUN
case 238: return "Diinkarazan"; SUN, KNOWLEDGE
ARCHDEVILS
case 139: return "Belial"; COLD
case 140: return "Bel"; MAGIC
case 141: return "Dispater"; PLANT
case 142: return "Mammon"; KNOWLEDGE
case 143: return "Fierna"; COLD
case 144: return "Levistus"; FIRE, TRAVEL
case 145: return "Glasya"; ANIMAL
case 146: return "Baalzebul"; FORGE
case 147: return "Mephistopheles"; WATER
case 148: return "Asmodeus"; HEALING, TRAVEL
DEMON PRINCES
case 132: return "Yeenoghu"; HEALING, SUN, MOON
case 149: return "Abyssal (magic)"; WAR
case 150: return "Abyssal (war)"; MAGIC
case 151: return "Abyssal (trickery)"; KNOWLEDGE
case 159: return "Pazuzu"; EARTH
case 160: return "Orcus"; SUN, MOON
case 161: return "Graz'zt"; DESTRUCTION, HEALING, TRAVEL
case 162: return "Baphomet"; AIR
case 163: return "Demogorgon"; WAR
case 164: return "Dagon";EARTH
case 177: return "Zuggtmoy"; ANIMAL
case 178: return "Juiblex"; MOON, PLANT, SUN
case 179: return "Paush"; PROTECTION, COLD
case 180: return "Eltab"; TRAVEL
case 181: return "Pale Night"; SUN, MOON
case 182: return "Obox-ob"; PLANT
case 183: return "Abraxas"; WAR
case 184: return "Kostchtchie"; HEALING
OTHER PLANR POWERS
case 165: return "Ravanna"; KNOWLEDGE
case 176: return "Malkizid"; HEALING
(that should be all. There will also be future additions to the gods list but they probably won't be heavily restricted as they are the religions and systems outside of Faerun and are more esoteric and less european in convention.)
Last edited by Red Ropes on Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:16 pm, edited 14 times in total.
Svrtr wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:46 pm
Ok going to go through all the dwarven deities because I like dwarves, don't judge me. (I will also now add on here that undeath makes sense for pretty much every dwarven god of the mordinsamman except abbathor and the duergar gods)
. . . .
Clangeddin Silverbeard - Already undeath again. I would argue trickery as his domain/portfolio is one of relentless training in pursuit of martial perfection, and it is noted that he strictly does not tolerate trickery or deceit.
. . . .
OK I am finally done and Ill admit got a bit lazy near the end. My 2 cents on the dwarven gods we have
Just wanted to add in that I think darkness would be shameful for any Alaghor to use. Kinda in the same vein. Blinding an opponent or using something to hinder them would be dishonorable imo.
Red Ropes wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:24 am
Acid is acid because if we called it Slime people wouldn't feel good taking it on say a god of nature.
That's totally fair and makes sense.
Thank you for the list. I'm gonna break it down a bit and see if I find any ways to help out further. There's clearly a divide between which domains are easy to slot in place (like undeath) and others that require a lot more nuance.
I know the suggestion thread is closed but has anythought been given to the opposite side of this coin, ie, giving benefits to certain domains based on deity. Like an extra spell slot in a particular spell level. For example, if you are a smooth hands cleric and you take earth you get an extra level 4 or 5 spell slot.
Archnon wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:33 pm
I know the suggestion thread is closed but has anythought been given to the opposite side of this coin, ie, giving benefits to certain domains based on deity. Like an extra spell slot in a particular spell level. For example, if you are a smooth hands cleric and you take earth you get an extra level 4 or 5 spell slot.
No obvious mechanical benefit will be tied to deities because this will mean having to customize domain interaction with each deity - resulting in a ton of workload all the while encouraging deity meta. This is to be avoided if we want to see players choosing their deities without feeling bad about not getting a mechanical boost.
For you, the day Kenji overhauled your class was the most important day of your life.
But for me, it was Tuesday. To-do list
Rather than go through each individual god and wax lyrical about which three domains I think they should ban, I'll instead approach this from the opposite angle: Let's look at domains that are hard to categorize, and try to deduce which deities might have some reason to ban them.
The one that jumps out immediately is the Strength domain. Who would ban Strength? Perhaps deities that favor Mind and Psionics? Or those that favor subterfuge? Strength also has an aspect of growth/thriving, so perhaps it would be opposite for those who favor decay, corruption and blight. There's also an aspect to Strength that speaks to forcefulness (might makes right), so perhaps deities with a more passive outlook, or that play the long game, might ban Strength.
One such example could be the deities of the Patience domain (Tyr, Dugmaren Brightmantle, Deneir and Labelas Enoreth). Tyr is probably hard to justify banning Strength on, because... well, we know what Tyr's all about. But the other three all take very long-view approaches to their dogma and could fit under the 'not forceful' banner. Another example could be Istishia, whose dogma specifically states: "As the rains flow down to the ocean in the folds of earth and not up mountains, so do the truths of Istishia spread throughout the land through their natural routes, not through rank force.".
Another is Travel. Travel's hard to pin down. Already some deities have been tagged with Travel (those connected to Earth), but one could expand Travel to mean Freedom. This would make it opposite to Tyranny and Slavery, of which there are several deities that oppose it. Naturally this would mean Bane, Tiamat and Asmodeus as the prime candidates for banning Travel-As-Freedom given that they're our tyrants of choice.
These are all some very random thoughts, but as I look at the present list of banned domains, I'm finding it quite hard to neatly fit in the existing domains, and some wiggle may be required.
*snipped because this ain't for suggestions*
Last edited by Deryliss on Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Not so much because of freedom but I actually like giving Bane a restriction on it due to his role as a dictator and similar reasons to powers/gods of tyranny.
The goal, also, isn't to "full three slots" either. It is less about having stuff to be blocked but just disregarding things that are iconic or even opposed to a god. Some are really straight forward, others, we don't really have anything to consider for them. There will even be some who probably won't have anything except for the alignment based auto-wall.
Try not to overcomplicate this in your head. What we're going for is more flavor and theme over anything directly restrictive. There will definitely be new domains that might be the "opposites" of some things but as this is phase I and we added a bunch of new domains you also have to understand we're going to spend time with those as well to build them up, tweak them, and so forth.
Not sure I agree with the idea of Mask banning Knowledge. I suppose you can view it as a "Unveiling of truth, revealing the unseen" thing, but that is as much a part of being a thief as the hiding is. You need to see the traps, know your targets patterns. Also the church of Mask is one of the bigger information/spying networks on Faerun.
Mask is very much a god of careful planning and consideration. Knowledge is, to my mind, actually very suited to him.
Hinty wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:20 pm
Not sure I agree with the idea of Mask banning Knowledge. I suppose you can view it as a "Unveiling of truth, revealing the unseen" thing, but that is as much a part of being a thief as the hiding is. You need to see the traps, know your targets patterns. Also the church of Mask is one of the bigger information/spying networks on Faerun.
Mask is very much a god of careful planning and consideration. Knowledge is, to my mind, actually very suited to him.
I agreed with this at first then re-read about Mask. He's direct enemies with "knowledge" deities like Waukeen and Selune and while info gathering would be in his wheel well seeking truth and protecting knowledge is definitely not... He'd probably prefer to use lies and misdirection whenever that would give an advantage.
So... It does make sense, especially if you think of it as "truth and knowledge" domain, or that the MO is about seeking truth and protecting knowledge to make sure it's not lost. Stuff Mask doesn't care about and would actively work against if it suited him, at least how I see it.
With Hoar being a vengeful deity and an exarch of Bane*, it makes no sense that Evil would be a banned domain. His homeplane is Banehold, an evil-aligned plane.
I also don't see anything in the lore that would forbid Hoarites from using Undeath as their domain.
Perhaps this was a slip up?
* in newer editions only. Thank you, Nitro, for pointing it out =)
Last edited by MissEvelyn on Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The Doombringer works through aerial servants, cursts, feyrs, harrlas, haunts, invisible stalkers, justice incarnates, keres, living steels, revenants, lhiannan shee, and maruts.
from Powers and Pantheons but I'm sure I've seen the revenant mention elsewhere- as well as a chance that clerics or servants of Hoar can be returned to life as revenants by him to deal with unfinished business. (This... might be homebrew I'm misremembering, tho)
If Hoar loses evil access, he should also lose good (he's being pulled in two different directions by Shar and Tyr respectively), so either lose both or lose neither, imo.
Archnon wrote:
I like the idea of slaves and slavery.
Red Ropes wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:24 amDARK SELDARINE
case 26: return "Lolth"; SUN, MOON, TRAVEL
case 101: return "Ghaunadaur"; ANIMAL, PLANT, SUN
case 125: return "Kiaransalee"; SUN, MOON, PLANT
case 126: return "Selvetarm"; SUN, HEALING
case 102: return "Vhaeraun"; KNOWLEDGE
case 9: return "Eilistraee"; DARKNESS
I will preface by saying that I think the domains chosen for the Dark Seldarine are well thought out. With the exception of one; Lolth and Travel Domain.
Her portfolio includes spiders, who distinguish themselves through impairing the movement of others while remaining unhindered themselves. Many of her thamtic spells and artefacts are centered around scaling any surface or being unaffected by movement debilitating effects. Furthermore, her divine realm is riddled with pieces of conquered worlds and portals to most corners of the multiverse. Travel is not something shunned.
I would suggest replacing it by good domain, or removing it completely.
To believe in an ideal is to be willing to betray it.
MissEvelyn wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:44 pm
With Hoar being a vengeful deity and an exarch of Bane, it makes no sense that Evil would be a banned domain. His homeplane is Banehold, an evil-aligned plane.
I also don't see anything in the lore that would forbid Hoarites from using Undeath as their domain.
Perhaps this was a slip up?
That's 4e and 5e lore. In 3.5 Hoar is an independent deity that has nothing to do with Bane.
Nitro wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:13 pmThat's 4e and 5e lore. In 3.5 Hoar is an independent deity that has nothing to do with Bane.
Good catch! =)
While it's true that Bane isn't yet involved in 3.5, the homeplane of Hoar is still Banehold (or Barrens of Doom and Despair as it's also called), which is an evil plane.
Not to mention, Hoar's dogma orders its followers to "pay back evil with evil", which is yet another case for the Evil domain to not be banned. The only time it speaks against evil is when it warns Hoar's followers of not falling into the trap of "pursuing evil acts for evil's sake", which isn't an outright ban on all evil.
Both Tyr and Shar do contest for Hoar's soul, but what we failed to mention earlier is that Hoar conspires and works together with Beshaba, a Chaotic Evil deity. Again, the case for banning Hoar from the Evil domain is not justifiable.
I actually forgot I had him at evil prohibition. I originally had him and Helm both with that but because of other domains and limitations sort of sat it aside. Both are not very brutal deities - both priesthoods in the 2e actively discourage depraved acts even if they work with evil gods or "return evil unto evil".
I'll probably remove it from him.
On Lolth:
I added travel onto Lolth and her counterpart of the Freth Heresy because they are a tyrannous power disinterested in letting things out of the snare of her web. Though a god that unshackles those from morality she is utterly disinterested in letting her "pet project" get away from her. It is obvious she tries her best to keep the Drow in the underdark so she can continue having influence.
(It is part of why Vhaeraun and Eilistraee are so dangerous to her. They wish the Drow to return above and be exposed to new ideas and peoples once again.)
I think I will maintain it for now as in the future there may be a suitable alternative that might give thematic immunities to web.
and makes sense.
To-do list
