Quarterbreaking

[Ork]

the rule should be swapped to that for QB you can only steal a statue or a painting or something that has RP value and not crafting or mechanical value.

also change the rule that it can only happen once a real life month not day. This would have the QB have to plan a theft and have chances to be caught before hand which yet again creates more RP from what now is a mostly non RP event

This is a simple way to end the worry that most have, and creates RP that the breakers must follow if they are so hell bent to be thieves.

In its own right, it would also create an art or similar black market style of RP for the thieves have to have a way to unload their loot.

I didn't think we could make quarterbreaking worse, but this certainly would.

[Cuchilla]

If we didn't have quarter breaking, it would be impossible for a quarter owner to leave something there for other players to find out who you are, and what you were up to.

Think about that.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

If we didn't have quarter breaking, it would be impossible for a quarter owner to leave something there for other players to find out who you are, and what you were up to.

Think about that.

This is a bit of a reach, I think - it implies that you couldn't leave said clue anywhere else in the module with the same intention. You don't need a janky mechanic to give RP clues to other people.

[I will never sleep]

Can't fixture owners just keep a description/name back up on a notepad somewhere?

The only things that are truly irreplaceable is the rugs around because they're grandfathered in.

If you don't think recreating things from rolled characters isn't kind of cheesy, I don't know what to say. If they do illusory amazing "Crime RP" with your stuff, just making a duplicate seems even more silly, then.

Also, there are more than just rugs that are uncraftable mechanics wise.

Also, I have had rugs stolen. Which is really in character, right? Adamantine would at least make sense, and not some meta knowledge of valuable irreplacable fixtures, like a rug.

You would think if people had problems with your character they would just confront you. Not steal your rugs.

There is a difference between roleplaying with someone and not roleplaying with them. And if requiring RP would somehow kill this incredible "Thief RP" avenue, then it probably isn't worth preserving to begin with.


--

no item is mechanically beyond theft

Except the ones in a character's inventory

IMO the formula for calculating carrying capacity and encumberance might use some overhaul.

Yes. "No item is mechanically beyond theft" except literally every single other aspect of the game is already like this. You cannot pull weapons out of people's hands, you can't pickpocket their key rings. You can kill people and they can just get back up and interpret conflicts however they wish. At least that, requires a face to face confrontation.

You can argue to make death more severe, or to bring pickpocketing back or whatever if we are really going in that direction. But not acknowledging there is a gap here seems disingenuous at best.

The fact that the victim can put themselves back to their original starting point when it happens doesn't excuse people from roleplaying before killing and bashing someone. So why should it be a persuasive argument re: theft?

[Duchess Says]

True, yes as I've been reminded. But it's still safer than quarter storage.

How so? Quarterbreaking requires building for an extreme skill cap out of reach for most characters and likely teamwork too. Stealing from settlement storage only requires a lack of conscience or knowledge it can be done in the first place. A level 3 could do it if they wanted though you'd probably want to be a sneak to get away with it repeatedly.

I don't mean to contradict a DM but I think the problem is only getting worse and players need to be aware not to keep high value items in settlement storage or be very careful about who might be around.

[ZeroPointEnergy]

Can't fixture owners just keep a description/name back up on a notepad somewhere?

The only things that are truly irreplaceable is the rugs around because they're grandfathered in.

If you don't think recreating things from rolled characters isn't kind of cheesy, I don't know what to say. If they do illusory amazing "Crime RP" with your stuff, just making a duplicate seems even more silly, then.

Also, there are more than just rugs that are uncraftable mechanics wise.

Also, I have had rugs stolen. Which is really in character, right? Adamantine would at least make sense, and not some meta knowledge of valuable irreplacable fixtures, like a rug.

You would think if people had problems with your character they would just confront you. Not steal your rugs.

There is a difference between roleplaying with someone and not roleplaying with them. And if requiring RP would somehow kill this incredible "Thief RP" avenue, then it probably isn't worth preserving to begin with.

If quarterbreakers were more common I'd definitely hire some to trash up an enemy's place. With Arelith the way it is though, I'd treat trashing up a quarter more seriously than just killing someone though.

I did buy a quarter key off of a faction member once to try to seek an end to a conflict. It was getting really silly because the threat of death wasn't something that was being respected and meeting them in their own house with a broken, single fixture was good enough to get a resolution settled. At that point, that person could no longer trust anyone in their own faction.

Now to be clear, quarterbreaking is hardly like that or nearly as interactive but I'd rather lose a rug (or in my case, THREE rugs) instead of not being able to violate the sanctity of someone's place if it really warrants it.

[The GrumpyCat]

True, yes as I've been reminded. But it's still safer than quarter storage.

How so? Quarterbreaking requires building for an extreme skill cap out of reach for most characters and likely teamwork too. Stealing from settlement storage only requires a lack of conscience or knowledge it can be done in the first place. A level 3 could do it if they wanted though you'd probably want to be a sneak to get away with it repeatedly.

I don't mean to contradict a DM but I think the problem is only getting worse and players need to be aware not to keep high value items in settlement storage or be very careful about who might be around.

True, or you could just sneak/run up behind someone as they open their quarter and enter that way. Much the same as stealing from citizen storage, if someone is stealthy enough, or fast enough, it's still possible.

I want to add that I consider this rather bad form and I'm REALLY not advocating this. Indeed I consider it pretty cheesy in some cases. But it's something you can do if you spot someone entering their quarter. The only difference is with citizen storage you NEED the person to be online to steal from them (if i am understanding right anyway) with quarter storage, with the right skills you don't even need that.

[Duchess Says]

Alright, well I know better than to argue with a DM but even just saying stealing from settlement storage is "bad form", implying it's legal but vaguely frowned upon, and not a punishable exploit is really distressing since it is taking advantage of a mechanical loophole. I don't think sneaking into a quarter after someone opens it is the same thing at all. With settlement storage theft I'm pretty sure sneaks just wait by banks fishing for what they can get too and it's not anything involving RP whatsoever.

[The GrumpyCat]

You have a good point there Dutchess and honestly I'm more than happy to bring that ruling up (The ruling re citizen storage) with the team and revisit it.

[Duchess Says]

Thank you, that would be appreciated!

[I will never sleep]

Now to be clear, quarterbreaking is hardly like that or nearly as interactive but I'd rather lose a rug (or in my case, THREE rugs) instead of not being able to violate the sanctity of someone's place if it really warrants it.

I don't see how we can't have a world where we can have quarterbreaking, but not quarterTHEFT, as is the case of what happens the grand majority of the time. Perhaps the title of the thread is a bit of a misnomer, as I find quarterbreaking a catalyst of the theft rules.

[Cuchilla]

I don't see how we can't have a world where we can have quarterbreaking, but not quarterTHEFT, as is the case of what happens the grand majority of the time. Perhaps the title of the thread is a bit of a misnomer, as I find quarterbreaking a catalyst of the theft rules.

So perhaps if the title of the thread had been "Secret quarter investigations", "Enemy spying in quarters", "Quarter trailing of secret organizations", "Quarter espionage", and the like, we would have had another discussion? James Bond did that.

[I will never sleep]

I don't see how we can't have a world where we can have quarterbreaking, but not quarterTHEFT, as is the case of what happens the grand majority of the time. Perhaps the title of the thread is a bit of a misnomer, as I find quarterbreaking a catalyst of the theft rules.

So perhaps if the title of the thread had been "Secret quarter investigations", "Enemy spying in quarters", "Quarter trailing of secret organizations", "Quarter espionage", and the like, we would have had another discussion? James Bond did that.

Except my problem is none of those things but wordless item thievery with no way to respond on what is allegedly a roleplay server.

[Cuchilla]

Allright. After reading what's written on this thread, and it really seems to concern some players, just throwing this suggestion out - haven't thought too much about it:

1. Remove all chests from quarters.

2. Expand any bank with large sections of anonymous "boxes", like the one in Dis. Not like the ones where you can see who owns it, without breaking into it.

*Bring forth the rotten tomatoes and eggs*

[AstralUniverse]

no item is mechanically beyond theft

Except the ones in a character's inventory

IMO the formula for calculating carrying capacity and encumberance might use some overhaul.

Yes. "No item is mechanically beyond theft" except literally every single other aspect of the game is already like this. You cannot pull weapons out of people's hands, you can't pickpocket their key rings. You can kill people and they can just get back up and interpret conflicts however they wish. At least that, requires a face to face confrontation.

You can argue to make death more severe, or to bring pickpocketing back or whatever if we are really going in that direction. But not acknowledging there is a gap here seems disingenuous at best.

Why thank you. I do acknowledge a gap, tho. I guess I should have phrased it as "No item is beyond theft in game".

[Ninjimmy]

Can't get stuff stolen from your quarter if you don't own a quarter



But real talk, there's already barely any crime and what we do have is raged and flamed and answered by disproportionate violence - if you want QB to be more interactive then maybe work on RPing some reactions to it to prompt more material?

I know this is a meet in the middle deal cos not all crooks act proper, and for this I endorse reports, but if you want a big impressive status symbol of your wealth then... You kinda gotta expect to face some crime.

Removing it outright and obliterating an arm of RP is just... I mean, I've seen more PvP etiquette breaches, I wouldn't want to remove PvP and since you can't know how many QBs don't leave clues or interact with you prior to the break in, you can't state outright no one interacts with you. OR that the majority of QBs steal things, I would think, that sounds like log information.

[Deryliss]

Unfortunately, as has been mentioned a few times before in this thread, noone gives a damn about the 'victim' side of the RP. Nothing can be done. Town guards know it. Other players know it. You'll get some pity messages and then told in vaguely ooc-like terms to upgrade your locks past the limit 'every time there's a storm' or whatever euphenism you want to use for server resets.

[Ork]

Unfortunately, as has been mentioned a few times before in this thread, noone gives a damn about the 'victim' side of the RP. Nothing can be done. Town guards know it. Other players know it. You'll get some pity messages and then told in vaguely ooc-like terms to upgrade your locks past the limit 'every time there's a storm' or whatever euphenism you want to use for server resets.

You got to play this up in character. You as the player may be frustrated, but have your guy pause everytime he sees a statue with a comment like, "I use to have one just like this in my house" or crumbling into a bench and sobbing or refusing to go into your house for fear of your safety being violated again or any and all sorts.

Think about this from the perspective of real life, right? You get robbed. You tell people. They pity you and they move on. That's a pretty accurate depiction of the human experience.

No ones going to push your roleplay for you, you have to do that.

Show up to every and all guard meeting eager to plead your case. Hound the government figures for stricter laws, etc. Roleplay won't get your fixture back, of course (probably) but it will give you some quality roleplay. Lemons lemonade. That sort of thing.

[Deryliss]

Unfortunately, as has been mentioned a few times before in this thread, noone gives a damn about the 'victim' side of the RP. Nothing can be done. Town guards know it. Other players know it. You'll get some pity messages and then told in vaguely ooc-like terms to upgrade your locks past the limit 'every time there's a storm' or whatever euphenism you want to use for server resets.

You got to play this up in character. You as the player may be frustrated, but have your guy pause everytime he sees a statue with a comment like, "I use to have one just like this in my house" or crumbling into a bench and sobbing or refusing to go into your house for fear of your safety being violated again or any and all sorts.

Think about this from the perspective of real life, right? You get robbed. You tell people. They pity you and they move on. That's a pretty accurate depiction of the human experience.

No ones going to push your roleplay for you, you have to do that.

Show up to every and all guard meeting eager to plead your case. Hound the government figures for stricter laws, etc. Roleplay won't get your fixture back, of course (probably) but it will give you some quality roleplay. Lemons lemonade. That sort of thing.

This is one of the most condescending posts I've ever seen here, which is saying something. Thanks for assuming I don't RP? :S

[Ork]

My intent wasn't to condescend, but okay. No one cares for the "victims" because their roleplay isn't interesting or engaging enough.

[Deryliss]

My intent wasn't to condescend, but okay. No one cares for the "victims" because their roleplay isn't interesting or engaging enough.

You're almost getting there.

You see, this entire thread is proof positive that the fun or enjoyment of the victims is not even in consideration. There's post after post putting down the victims of quarterbreaking, and providing excuses to why its not a big deal. "It doesn't happen that often!" "Do you know how much effort goes into quarterbreaking?" "Stealing things from you generates so much RP!" "Wanting a chance at getting your stuff back is a must win mentality!"

All this is just blaming the victims for not being good enough victims. The 'must win' mentality is coming from a slew of players who have absolutely no love for those who are their targets. The targets of the quarterbreaking builds they know how to make because they're not shared openly, that are hard to gear up for a solo player, but trivial for an established faction or oocly organized discord group. It's an 'open secret', and its allowed to continue in its present state because 'few people can do it'.

Do you want to know why victim RP isn't interesting? Because the victims are *utterly* on the losing side. They have nothing to fight back with. The perpetrators are held up as the bastion of RP, are given all the tools IC and OOC to succeed, and all they are fighting against is a mathematical challenge (make build to beat DC). They can even make sure to only make their attempts when they -know- their victim is not online, reducing their chance of detection to near zero. You are handed the tools to perform the perfect crime, every time, without consequence.

Meanwhile the victims get none of this. No mechanical support for finding the perpetrators. No way to recover their lost property back without extreme luck or some random act of kindness from the criminal. No love IC or OOC from characters or players whom they would seek help from. This entire thread is proof positive that the 'must win' mentality comes from those who endorse and approve of Quarterbreaking. You simply cannot envision an Arelith where a thief can get caught, unless its on their own terms and by their own design, to enrich their story as they see fit.

The truth: You don't care about the fun for the victim. In fact, here you are mocking their RP for being 'not interesting'. This is not 'be nice'. You're also not alone, which is a damned shame.

[EDIT] A certain word removed.

[Ork]

What is loss but an opportunity for roleplay? Don't limit yourself. I've never made a quarterbreaker, nor will I ever, but I have 0 sympathy for players that can't roll with the punches of this game and make a story out of it.

[Deryliss]

What is loss but an opportunity for roleplay? Don't limit yourself. I've never made a quarterbreaker, nor will I ever, but I have 0 sympathy for players that can't roll with the punches of this game and make a story out of it.

I love that quote. Perhaps we can apply this to the quarterbreakers, and let them experience loss and failure once in a while? I'm sure that would do wonders for their RP. And think of the story they could make out of it.

Stop blaming the victims for not being good enough victims. RP flows both ways.

[EDIT] A certain word removed.

[Ork]

Let me back up a bit because I think we got lost. I strongly support a mechanic that provides consequences for quarterbreakers and opportunity for roleplay to exist where a quarterbraker can be discovered and consequenced. Thats cool. Thats roleplay. Thats conflict. I'm all about that.

My posts are angled towards the victims of quarterbreaking where you claim no one cares. How well you roleplay influences your outcomes. You (royal or you literally) are in charge of your fun. If you're frustrated by how no one is responding to your roleplay around something being stolen, ultimately you can change that by producing more roleplay more inclusion more opportunities for players to band together. I get winning is fun, but I am also advocating that losing can be fun too.

I have no ability to change any mechanic on this server nor do I influence anyone that does. But, Sincra did say they're planning on working on something so thats really cool news.

[mash]

Sure, everyone deserves to lose once in a while. But for QB, all the power is in favor of the quarterbreaker. If we translated the QB mechanic to pvp, it would be like having a class with unsaveable death rays to remote zap other characters while they are logged out. By virtue of their build, quarterbreakers have low risk while reaping the benefits. It was said in the thread that quarters should not be safe - I agree, but neither should the breakers be.

Now, in reality there are probably too few quarterbreakers around to make a huge impact and of those I think most know that with great QB power comes great QB responsibility. I am convinced if leveling quarterbreakers was easier we would very quickly see an escalation of the problem - their rarity is an essential factor for minimizing the problems. No matter how much fun one can get by playing the victim (which can be substantial!), I think everyone agrees that it ceases to be fun when it happens too frequently.

In short: I would prefer that Quarterbreaking actually carries a real risk and/or investment, beyond the fact of having a specialized build that doesn't lend itself to PvP. At any rate, the number of active quarterbreakers should be carefully observed (and I would be surprised if that was not already the case) to make sure these events stay rare.